S2E5 "Damane" -- w/ Book Spoilers

Ilverin Matriam

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For any and all thoughts about Season 2 Episode 5, Damane!

This is the thread with SPOILERS from the books! If you don't want anything spoiled and you haven't read the books please take advantage of the NO spoilers thread!

:joy:
 
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Just a few of quick thoughts.

I'm concerned to be honest.

I feel the story is being rushed to its detriment. Having Egwene already damane when I feel like she has barely spent anytime at the tower is off putting to me.

I feel the show is really starting to struggle with Rand/Perrin/Mat.

Rand has not been fleshed out at all. Perrins storyline really is not working for me, and Mat has been pretty much non existent to this point.

I also don't feel that the changes to Moiraines story-line to keep her as a prominent character in the plot are working very well.
 

Thaddius al'Guy

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The girls time in the tower is mostly uneventful up to the point of them leaving for Falme via Liandrin's betrayal. The only difference now is that they aren't following the "We're sniffing out for the Black Ajah sisters" thread and instead going with that the others seem to be in trouble in Falme so we're going to go help. That's completely feasible.

Perrin's story, I still feel is very hard to adapt due to the nature of the character. We've talked about this at length in the podcast, so not to retread too much on it, I think they're doing an OK job with getting his character where it needs to be. Without the massive amount of Perrin internal dialogue I think it's a good thing they paired him with Aviendha this early on.

I can't defend Mat. They've underutilized him for this season. 5 episodes in, and he's done what? Left the White tower and is headed to Cairhein? I know what they're attempting (for the most part), and it's going to be that Min/Mat reunite with Moiraine/Rand, and then get them to Falme. Maybe via the Waygate in Barthanes' Manor Yard or by Portal stone perhaps? We'll find out next week.
 
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13 episodes in here are my scores for how well the five main characters are being represented based on who they are in the books.

Rand 3/10
Perrin 4/10 - Higher than Rand only because at least his story-line and character arc is being developed. Rand has shown very little to me so far to be anything more than a plot device.
Mat 1/10

Egwene 7/10
Nyneave 8/10

I think there is a real problem developing here, and I'm worried the writers really don't know how to handle rand, perrin and mat.
 

Nadezhda al'Lanahrin

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This is on par with the books, though.
 
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I mean in fairness, book 2 & 3 trio boys don't do much. They spend 95% of their time riding horses or running across the countryside. I mean I guess we could get multiple short scenes where Rand is at a campfire dealing with nightmares
 
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I mean in fairness, book 2 & 3 trio boys don't do much. They spend 95% of their time riding horses or running across the countryside. I mean I guess we could get multiple short scenes where Rand is at a campfire dealing with nightmares
This, to be fair, is a good point.
 

Catt Walburga de Wiltz

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And there are huge gaps where RJ forgot about one character or another and then realized it and gave them 50 pages of sniffing and arm crossing. 😜

Kidding aside, I actually really like how they're handling the adaptation. It is getting everyone to the main plot points somehow in a way that makes more sense for the screen and newcomers to the series, but at the same time it keeps us old-timer readers guessing and having fun theorizing again. That's a great way of doing it tbh. A word for word adaptation was never going to be feasible and given the vastness of the source material this is quite acceptable.
 
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Adapting the character arc of Rand for a TV poses unique challenges.
Much of his journey in the second book we are in Rand's head. That's not possible in a TV.

Let's looks at some of the major elements in the second book

CharacteristicsIn the bookIn the showScore
Isolation and lonelinessThose things often come through his thoughts. About how he can never come back home, how he has to run away.Not being privy to his thoughts, they do that explicitly by having him be alone completely while the other think he is death for months.10/10
ChannelingThe struggle between control and the dangerous allure of the One Power is often shown in his thoughts. There are some great sequences where he is fighting not to channel.They have to do it visually. So they show how he is barely controlling the power - burning the Inn for example. And also the conversation with Logain. Rand is desperate to learn how to stop channeling and he doesn't want to learn to channel.10/10
Being the DragonRand constantly battles with the idea of being the Dragon Reborn, conveyed through internal dialogue filled with doubt, fear, and resistance. While the Moiraine and Suian are trying to manipulate him into accepting it.He generally accepted this much quicker in the TV show partially because at the end of last season he had to or risk everyone else. But this is not very well explored . But we know we have a meeting between Rand and Siuan in future episodes5/10
Growing as a LeaderHis leadership qualities are revealed through his thoughts during crises where he weighs options and makes difficult decisions especially when separated with Hurin and Loial , showing a natural inclination towards leadingNot covered in the show so far. Though I don't doubt it will be.0/10
Swordsmanship SkillsRand and Land training sessions are great. And their bond is for me one of the highlights.Unfortunately, they had to split Lan and Rand so they introduced a new guy in the hospis (forgot his name) where he explains the forms and is implied Rand trains with him.

Land and Rand bond will be likely shown later.
5/10
Temptation and Moral ChoicesRand is clearly attracted to Selene in the books. He is often thinking of kissing her and how she affects him. Also she is trying to tempt him with the allure of power and glory which he refuses. I recently read the 2nd book and it's really fun how she engineers situations in which he has to use the One PowerRand being more mature, this is rather more direct. We are not in his thoughts (where he is often thinking about Selene) instead we are very explicitly shown (both in real world and in his dreams). Here Selene and Lanfear is much more subtle and manipulative. She believably make Rand fall for her. There's more to come in the next episode !10/10
Political AcumenRand spends considerable time in Cairhien when he refuses to play the Great Game and fails to (because not playing the game is still playing it) and learns some lessons from thatVery similar.10/10

So Rand average score of how close he is to book Rand: 7.1/10
 
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Thaddius al'Guy

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11/10

Great breakdown.
 
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And there are huge gaps where RJ forgot about one character or another and then realized it and gave them 50 pages of sniffing and arm crossing. 😜

Kidding aside, I actually really like how they're handling the adaptation. It is getting everyone to the main plot points somehow in a way that makes more sense for the screen and newcomers to the series, but at the same time it keeps us old-timer readers guessing and having fun theorizing again. That's a great way of doing it tbh. A word for word adaptation was never going to be feasible and given the vastness of the source material this is quite acceptable.

I like how they are handling the series as well. I have concerns absolutely, but ultimately its only entertainment, and I'm being entertained!
 
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I'd also like to add to the above that I think Mat is pretty much an impossible character to transfer from the written page to TV.

So, in that sense maybe 1/10 is harsh.
 

Megana Vallentin

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This is hands down my favorite episode so far this season! But that tracks, because the girls leaving the Tower for Falme is when I really started to get hooked into the books back in the day. I'm so excited and yet also not mentally prepared to see some of these things on the screen!

I absolutely loved everything with Verin and everything with Aviendha.

I would have liked some Mat, but it felt like such a full episode that I don't know how they would have fit him in. I really hope we'll get back to him next week though.
 

Nadezhda al'Lanahrin

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I really enjoyed this episode, as you can really start seeing the pieces starting to move. However, I don't think it was as strong as the last episode. But still exceptional!!
 
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Point of interest -

Most of the people posting on here have been here a long time, so you are all obviously massive fans of the books and possibly the series.

How many times do you watch the episodes?
 

Delara Morellin

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How many times do you watch the episodes?

Twice. Once on my own so I can enjoy Ishy the episode in peace, second time with Mr. Morellin who has read the books but barely remembers them and asks lots of questions 😅
 

Megana Vallentin

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How many times do you watch the episodes?

Typically twice, once on my own so I can really focus on it and once with the reaction videos from Everyday Negroes on YouTube.
 

Leira Galene

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The scene with Lanfear and Ishamael in TAR was just perfect, I love that they're capturing the petty bitchiness of the Forsaken towards each other :laugh:

Something I never expected is that the show would make me be so much more interested in the villains. Liandrin, Lanfear, and Ishy are like... yeah they're interesting but I mean they're evil. In the show I'm really fascinated by them, all their actors are just killing it. I never in a million years would have expected to feel pity for Liandrin after she betrays the girls!
 

Dorian Har'Locke

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I loved the weave-assembling collar. That was a surprise but the kind of thing I really flip out over. Hate everything else about suldam/damane, but if this is precedent for transforming te'rangreal and sa'angreal then I'm here for it in a big way. I swear, if Callandor is a lightsaber, I might lose my mind.
 
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