Re-Readalong: Path of Daggers To the End!

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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  2. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    One thing confuses me here... When was Egwene forced, that Siuan feels she needs to apologize for? I thought that would have happened when she was damane...
     
  3. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    I think the forcing thing was off screen. Or that's what I imagine Jordan would say if asked. :cheese


    Also, I finally picked the book up again! :joy (I hadn't all month.) Right in the middle of Egwene scheming. It was a good place to start. :lol

    Unfortunately, I've misplaced my notebook with all my previous notes in it. I'm sure it's in my apartment somewhere, I just have to find it.
     
  4. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    Welcome to the reread Luciana! (And to the site as well. :) ) Kassina posted the links to the earlier book reread discussion for you. I hope you'll enjoy our rambling comments! :Lol
     
  5. Luciana Valkyrie

    Luciana Valkyrie

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    Thanks Kassina Sedai! Sorry to derail the conversation :)
     
  6. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    I just realized the other day that I hadn't put any of my notes from POD in here. :facepalm

    Prologue
    Borderlanders

    • Ethenielle is being super careful in this meeting with Arafellan & Shienaran leaders -- she's heard of the Souther leader's disappearances and deaths.
    • If Tenobia has no heir, the throne goes to Bashere, then Faile.
    • The Borderlanders together have 13 Aes Sedai.
    • Tenobia is playing matchmaker. :lol
    • The pledge ceremony is a Borderlanders thing. It's only happened 7 times since the Breaking.

    Verin

    • Verin is going to give Sorilea a list of things that shame wetlander women to get on Sorilea's good side.
    • It has been 71 years since Verin made a serious mistake. I wonder what it was?
    • Does Verin ever write down her cipher?
    • Verin has a secret angreal.
    • She's cobbled together a form of Compulsion. It's not perfect, and can kill within a year.
    • Interesting: Verin provides qualifications for her twisty truths in her head, even though she can lie.
    • Some Verin interrogates say Rand must be kept safe. All say the world must be safe from him.
    • Verin's weave doesn't force compliance. The person she's using it on must find reasons within themselves to obey.
    • Delving, very careful Delving, can discover what's been done.
    • Trust is essential in Verin's weave.
    • Men are "bad subjects" though Verin can't understand why. Men are more likely to question their actions? Or to have trouble finding the shades of grey that allow them to obey?
    • Subjects forget what happened.
    • All Verin's Power working has a physical toll on her -- not just energy-sapping, but muscle aches as well.
    • "How would her life have gone if she had not been so curious?" -- Does she wonder about the Black Ajah, if she would have joined?

    Moridin

    • The Fisher piece in sha'rah is Rand? Blind, though.
    • Moridin is insane -- contemplative to rage to calm to laughing, in a blink of an eye.

    Chapter 1
    • First we hear of Amayar. Similar to Aiel, believ elife is an illusion. Hand and orb are in their prophecies. They're also like the Tuatha'an; they're peaceful and follow the Water Way.
    • Aviendha is embarassed because Birgitte called her and Elayne kittens.
    • Elayne tries to curse -- Lan is amused -- what did she get wrong?
    • Lan and Birgitte are allies of a sort.
    • Aviendha is horrified that she's enjoying talking about lace and clothes.
    • Who did Aviendha see?

    Chapter 2
    • "Nynaeve was as skilled at woodcraft as she was with herbs."
    • Nynaeve gets impressions about things sometimes.
    • Martine = Setalle?
    • Aviendha can read weave residues.
    • Aes Sedai and Windfinders don't unweave.
    • Sammael was trying to get the terangreal collection.
    • What are the involuntary rings Moridin thinks of?
    • The Age of Legends didn't know of unweaving.
    • In the Age of Legends, the weather was regulated with terangreal. Moridin is surprised at the women who can manipulate weather without terangreal.
    • Moridin is angry on the Dark Ones behalf, that TDO's touch on the weather -- fixing seasons in place -- could possibly be undone.
    • Moridin is sure that they went far far away.
    • The gholam doesn't recognize the True Power, though it seems familiar.
    • Gholam feeds on fresh blood, particularly likes human blood.
    • Whoever commands the gholam wants Mat dead, and "the women" -- Elayne for sure.

    Chapter 3
    • Palm trees!

    Chapter 4
    • The farm is a waypoint for Kinswomen coming and going.
    • Alise is worried about going back to the Tower -- she wasn't strong enough to test and doesn't want to be a novice for the rest of her life.
    • What's the dull dagger Aviendha finds?

    Chapter 5
    • Moridin thinks of involuntary links -- the damane?
     
  7. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    I like your summary of chapter three Mother :lol Those three first chapters are unnecessary long if you ask me :look

    And I think Verins last mistake was when she had to join the Black Ajah...

    And Aviendha probably saw Moridin, or the servant...
     
  8. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    No, I think it was the gholum?
     
  9. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    Servant or gollam, in my opinion. Moridin was standing behind an arabesque window when he received a report. So he wasn't on a rooftop.
     
  10. al'Kosh de Dagda

    al'Kosh de Dagda Citizen

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    Finished my audiobook 'reread' of Path of Daggers the other day. Is it just me or does this book feel like it just sorta stops? Previous books had fairly obvious ending points (though Shadow Rising went on too long for me)-- usually a big battle with a Forsaken or something like Falme or Dumai's Wells. Sure, we have Dashiva and co. going after Rand, but that fight doesn't end with any sort of real resolution.
     
  11. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    PoD does have an abruptness to its ending. I've always thought that books 8 and 9 should have been a single book, with shifting the use of the Bowl of Winds to book 7 for a double dose of epic stops.
     
  12. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Yeah, I felt the same way. It does feel weirdly abrupt. The battle is exciting, but it doesn't have as climactic an ending as some of the others do. Nothing huge happens because of the battle (other than the revelation that Dashiva and others are evil). It does seem to just... end. :cheese
     
  13. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Yes! The Companion confirms this. :D

    A'dam maybe?
     
  14. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    Martine = Setalle was confirmed as strongly as possible before the companion.

    As to involuntary rings, they are a torture method by the Black Ajah, used against women who could channel. It is referenced in the books by Alviarin (if I remember correctly); remembering how she tortured some Aes Sedai. A woman who could channel is forced to join a circle and then things that are not nice at all are done to her in the circle.
     
  15. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Ah, thank you al'Amar.

    Chapter 6

    • Elayne notices the change of saidar -- as though she could pluck little bits out of hte air.
    • Nynaeve seriously needs to take leadership lessons from Alise.
    • Birgitte has nothing but confidence in Elayne
    • Even when Elayne thinks she can''t, Birgitte does. Birgitte's confidence in Elayne is what gets Elayne through.
    • Elayne didn't understand the full consequences of what unweaving a weave could do. It can kill, it can be just a flash of light, it ca burn out everyone in range.
    • Morat'raken have amazing control -- Chulein didn't move when the raken went into a spin.
    • The farm was destroyed, like the area in Andor on the other side.
    • Chulein thinks it's a massive weapon.

    Chapter 7

    • Perrin's crew believes the Bowl of the Wind channling was Forsake because it was saidin and saidar.
    • The weavings made Neald think of wind.
    • Perrin recognizes Gill.
     
  16. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Chapter 8

    • Perrin greatly underestimates Morgase's age.
    • Cha Faile = Faile's Talon
    • Alliandre tours Bethal daily to keep people's spirits up.
    • Selande leads Cha Faile.
    • Tallanvor doesn't trust Perrin, and Morgase is afraid of him.

    Chapter 9

    • The Two Rivers men respond to Perrin looking after them, checking up on them.
    • Perrin doesn't know about Aiel and the Tinkers, that they avoid each other.
    • Seonid = gay? Her Warders are like brothers to her.
    • The Dreamwalkers have seen that Masema needs to die.
    • Seonid tells Perrin to butt out of her and the Wise Ones.
    • The Wise Ones have taken Seonid and Masuri as true apprentices.
    • Seonid thinks Masema should be killed, like a rabid dog. Masuri believes Masema can be leashed -- and she also wants to leash Perrin, to make him safe.

    Chapter 10

    • FINALLY Perrin is learning about Saldeans.
    • Perrin is distracted and calls Alliandre by her name rather than title.
    • Perrin dispenses with pleasantries and chitchat -- he gets to the point.
    • Alliandre pledges to Perrin -- and Perrin only. She sees pledging to Perrin the same as pledging to Rand.
    • Faile was prepared to kidnap Alliandre.

    Chapter 11

    • The Wise Ones are turning on Sevanna.
    • Does Sevanna think she can still learn to channel?
    • The Aiel (Shaido) dislike that some other clans came to them instead of following Rand. That feels hypocritical to me.
    • The Wise Ones are finally standing up to Sevanna.
    • Therava and the Wise Ones plan to create a hold in the wetlands as a base for reuniting the Shaido.

    Chapter 12

    • Graendal enjoys sketching.
    • Graendal is willing to be flexible and serve Shadar Haran without extra convincing, but she's also keeping some of her plans to herself, in case sh can be Naeblis in the future.
    • Some servants in the Cairhien palace wear the dragon pin, but not all.
    • Cadsuane thinks Moiraine bungled the handling of Rand.
    • Alanna hid the truth of ht bond and what Rand would feel.
    • Sorilea and Casuane "agree" to work together to make Rand laugh and cry.
    • Sorilea teaches Cadsuane Travelling.
     
  17. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Chapter 13

    • Rand is feeling Alanna's outrage and shock. :lol
    • Dashiva/Osan'gar -- is he actually crazy, or just pretending?
    • D/O'g speaks and reads the Old Tongue like a scholar -- of course, since it's close to what he'd used before sealed away -- but his cover story is that he's a farmer. Pretty shoddy cover story.

    Chapter 14

    • I wonder how many of the men following Rand because he's there in front of them end up going to the Last Battle like the men we see forsake farming to go north?
    • Where did Lews Therin go?
    • Perrin "touching" Rand, and the whole color shifty thing with the three boys -- because they're ta'veren? [I have a note here about Perrin "touching" Rand possibly being because of Moridin? Or seeing through Moridin's eyes the way Rand does sometimes? Not sure.]
    • When did Taim start turning people?
    • The Black Tower has 2/3 of what the pre-Egwene White Tower numbers were.
    • Taim hates giving Rand a title.
    • What's the blackberry bush Taim speaks of? Tar Valon? When sisters get pregnant accidentally, would the child be adopted out in Tar Valon? Could there be a higher rate of boy children who can channel in Tar Valon because of that?
    • Taim poisons the men who g mad. The madness is inevitable, but unpredictable.
    • Rand thinks of his soul being damned.
    • 1/10 of the Black Tower men are "destroyed"; 1/50 go mad.
    • The Seanchan really aren't bad for regular citizens -- they repair things, organize sick houses, and make sure everyone is fed.
    • Saidin near where the Bowl was used is odd, and doesn't do what the channeller tells it.
    • Rand thinks Morr might be mad.
    • One of Rand's Finn questions was how to cleanse the taint on saidin.

    Chapter 15

    • Egwene's dreams
      • Rand with different masks, until one of them was him.
      • Perrin and a Tinker hacking through brambles, unaware of the cliff ahead -- the brambles were screaming with human voices
      • Mat, weighing two Aes Sedai on a scale, and on his choice depends the world.
      • Mat pale and full of pain?
    • Egwene thinks Halima's curiosity in everything innocent, but still doesn't quite trust her.
    • Law of Unintended Consequences: Whether or not what you do has the effect you want, i t will have three at least you never expected, and one of those usually unpleasant.
    • Egwene starting to work on Suian to remind her of her place.
    • Egwene mentions freeing Aes Sedai of the Three Oaths, and Suian says it will destroy the Tower.
     
  18. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    The Blackberry bush is the Two Rivers. Taim went there personally and recruited men and boys who could channel. And he found a surprising number of them; evidence in AMoL.
     
  19. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

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    There is nothing that says that a Sister can't have a child is there?
     
  20. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    You're right; there is no rule in the White Tower against sisters having children. It was just rare. Nothing like Far Dareis Mai who have children and don't want to give up the spear.

    In a related topic, I think there was a discussion somewhere on the Oath Rod as a contraceptive. Probably on another forum; but I cannot remember which one.