Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: To the End!

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. Megana Vallentin

    Megana Vallentin Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 12-16

    Me too, I liked the Sea Folk when Elayne was learning from them, but after this they just make me annoyed and sad because I thought they were so great earlier!
     
  2. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 12-16

    Sorry I've been absent, y'all. This week has been super busy at work and I haven't had a chance to slip away to type up my notes. I'm read up through 16, though. :D *proud*
     
  3. Leira Galene

    Leira Galene Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah Forum Moderator

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    I had two 7 hour train rides this weekend so I am now on 18! I wanted to look so much up in the companion though, mostly all the different Aes Sedai that have been mentioned in the past few chapters.

    Egwene sending Lan to Nynaeve was so awesome. I loved that scene.
     
  4. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Yeeees. Loved that.
     
  5. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Chapter 10

    • Egwene still feels she needs her mother's permission to marry.
    • Rhuidean had once been unreachable in Tel'aran'rhiod, like stedding.
    • "By Tower law" ter'angreal belong to the Tower. Pfffft.
    • Wise Ones build their collection of jewelry over years -- possibly why it's so distasteful for Sevanna to wear so much.
    • Egwene thinks she's right in why she wants to guide Rand -- so does everyone!
    • Why do the Wise Ones accept Sevanna as a Wise One?
    • Egwene dreams that Gawyn has 2 paths (marry her or not) and 2 ends (violent death, or long life).
    • She dreams of Mat's dragons.
    • The runner? to save Egwene? (not sure what I meant by this -- it's one of the dreams)
    • The dark young man holding something that shone brightly?

    Chapter 11

    • Didn't Blue get a new eyes and ears master? Oh, yes, Aeldene took some time to arrive.
    • Romanda and Lelaine wanted the Amyrlin eyes and ears network to go to the Hall.

    Chapter 12

    • Myrelle has a great disdain and distrust of the Band. She equates them with Dragonsworn.
    • Why does Myrelle think she can command Bryne?
    • Egwene figures Siuan hates Bryne, or loves him, but can't imagine Siuan in love.
    • Bryne as good as tells Egwene the army is hers.
    • Myrelle thinks Egwene and Siuan know about Lan.
    • Why are Nicola and Areina in Myrelle's camp? -- Blackmail.
    • Nisao cannot believe that Lan loves Nynaeve.
    • Nicola wants to be another Caraighan, or Moiraine.
    • N & A have a pattern of blackmail. Probably thought that since it worked with Nisao and Myrelle, it would work with Egwene.
    • Changing anything in Skimming leads to different results. For example, creating a second platform if you fall, or opening a gate at the end of the platform where you entered.
    • Romanda wants each sister question as to if sh'es Black Ajah, and Lelaine wants mention of BA outlawed.

    Cahpter 13

    • Aviendha finds the idea of useless water unthinkable.
    • She's afraid of the water.
    • Silk is very precious to the Aiel -- a silk scarf is very expensive and precious. Why? They trade with the Sharans.
    • Even if Aviendha finds Elayne's honor odd, she admires her for following it.
    • Aviendha already knows that she and Elayne will become first-sisters.
    • Aviendha has the idea of using Mat's ta'veren nature to find the Bowl of Winds.
    • Birgitte is afraid Mat knows show she is.
    • Elayne offeres advice to Aviendha without it seeming advice. Aviendha takes it as an idle comment at first.
    • Aviendha finds it hard to believe that the Sea Folk men wear necklaces. After seeing that, she'd believe they ate their dead, too.
    • Rand not being able to stand up in the ship cabin doesn't say much -- he's 6'6"+. (Can't remember exactly from the Companion.)
    • Birgitte didn't usually mirror Elayne's moods unless they were very strong.

    Chapter 14

    • Mat is super confident in his knowledge of horses and in Olver.
    • Aviendha has begun looking out for Olver.
    • Almost as though he was fated to have that signet ring...
    • Better rooms in Ebou Dar are on higher floors to catch the breeze.
    • Mat tracks the Darkfriend to a palace let by Jaichim Carridin.
    • Noal! Was he following Mat?

    Chapter 15

    • Mili Skane - she's not a noble, and she became a Darkfriend because she couldn't channel. Her first kill was at age 15. (Hard to believe someone would turn to the Dark One because they can't channel. Think she'd have become Black Ajah had she been a channeller?)
    • Old Cully -- do we ever meet him?
    • Darkfriend hierarchy interests me. What makes on move up in Darkfriend ranks?
    • She didn't follow Mat to the races.
    • TDO doesn't know Mat's not linked to the Horn any more.
    • Carridin hates anyone who uses the Power, but only mortals -- Forsaken (at least Sammael) don't count as mortals.
    • Did something get triggered when Carridin saw Mat?

    Chapter 16

    • The dice hadn't rolled so hard for Mat since the battle at Caemlyn (?) agains Gaebril's men.
    • "The Dice almost always meant danger."
    • The Aes Sedai actually jerk Mat back and forth like children fighting.
    • Tylin creeps me out. If the genders were reversed in this scene (that whole "relationship"), it would be a far far different story.

    Chapter 17

    • Dice are still rolling.
    • Ongoing story of Mat being blind to where Olver leans to treat women. Booooooooring.
    • Nerim makes it sound like he thinks Mat purposefully smears blood on his coats.
    • Ebou Dari jewelry all tells a story, from marriage knives to guild earrings.
    • Setalle Anan has the carriage of an Aes Sedai (shocker).,
    • Joline hates the rebels for breaking the Tower, but sees that Elaida made mistakes as well.
    • Teslyn thinks to make Aviendha a novice -- against her will?
    • Joline inteds to keep Elaid in the dark about Ebou Dar news till Elaida asks.
    • Falion judges Temaile for enjoying torturing people. Ispan has no stomach for torture.
    • Noal is watching the house where the Black Ajah are staying. He's missing the memories of his time with Graendal.
     
  6. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Yeah, it's a weird situation there. Technically, the Band is Dragonsworn in one definition of the word. They do follow what the Dragon says (though I suppose they never swore to him) so they kind of are dragonsworn. However, the term has taken on such a loaded (and pejorative) connotation that, while doing Rand's bidding, Mat vehemently denies that the Band is dragonsworn.

    'Cause she's Aes Sedai? :cheese

    I wondered that as well. :scratch

    :eek I hadn't realized that was Noal! :facepalm *goes back to reread*
     
  7. Ealandrelle Melyma

    Ealandrelle Melyma Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Excuse the random jumping in (I'm slowly catching up with the audiobooks :look). Just in reply to Mother's question as to why the other Wise Ones accept Sevanna - it's pretty much because Sevanna has the cahoonas to say "I'm a Wise One, are you going to try and say I'm not?"... which is pretty much what it takes to become a Wise One :look Even though she's never been to Rhuidean, even though she was never an apprentice... I think they're nuts, but hey, Aiel are crazy about those customs of theirs :look
     
  8. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    He's an ugly old man. I pretty much just assumed it was him. :look


    RE: Sevanna
    But they're so tied to custom! Why, why wouldn't they make her go to Rhuidean? I just...so much would have been avoided if they'd only kept that one bit of custom. :desk
     
  9. Leira Galene

    Leira Galene Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah Forum Moderator

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Ok, so one thing I noticed in Chapters 18 and 19 is that the POV changes a lot, but the ebook just has regular paragraph breaks. It is really confusing sometimes.
     
  10. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    In book 13 we learn that Aviendha only needs to proclaim herself a Wise One and not obey the other Wise Ones meekly. Sadly, the only thing it takes to be a Wise One is to proclaim oneself one, and when the the Wise Ones in the clan accept it, you are a Wise One.
    Since Sevanna bullied the other Shaido Wise Ones into accepting her, the other clans have little choice but to accept her.

    But yes, it is stupid :desk
     
  11. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Is that literally all you have to do? I thought she got tired of that, and then proclaimed she was going to Rhuidean. Sevanna didn't do the rings, or the time machine, so I just don't understand how they accept her. :tug
     
  12. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Chapter 18

    And..

    here she is.

    Cadsuane, one of the 4 characters that has ever reached the point of just being annoying that I wanted them to go away, not die. Just leave the story. From the very start she does everything that a character can do to absolutely annoy me from a writing perspective.

    She begins by automatically assuming that every character should bow to her every whim, and treats Rand like utter crap for no reason, and mind you she treats everyone like crap for little reason, and then she blames Rand for very frankly treating her as she treated him most of the time, and she took outrage at it.

    I am sorry, but walking into a place like you own it, not bother introducing yourself, letting lose one of Rand's biggest secrets and worries in public. Everything she does in this chapter would have been far better for her and Rand if she introduced herself..and asked if she could speak to him alone and talk to him like an equal. She doesn't have to bow, or beg but be polite. Mention that you knew moraine when she was younger, then go into the madness stuff make yourself someone Rand can confide in about the madness. Immediately antagonizing the person you want to help is a stupid way to go about things.

    Now, I blame Jordan for this but the second thing that drives me up the wall, but it alone makes me want her to go away.

    Her existence retroactively takes accomplishments from other characters. When we are introduced to her, she mentions taking care of Logain and Taim. If she had been involved in their capture why wasn't that news? People thought she was dead. If she was involved with Taim's capture wouldn't Elaida's first reaction be "Oh god, Cadsuane is going to feed me my shawl" Especially if the sheer appearance of Cadsuane causes at least one other Aes Sedai to faint. It is just something to make her seem more "awesome" but it doesn't make any sense and could have been accomplished much easier by just having Cadsuane be Moraine's Teacher.

    The third big reason I dislike Cadsuane is that she is half way a fraud, while she did earn her tools I question how much of her "Legendary" status would have been attained without them, and was she just going to die and leave them..sitting in her retirement cottage? Oh these infinitely useful items? we will just let them sit unused for Decades so I can keep my mystique despite being retired.

    She is also a gigantic Hypocrite. She will not take any sort of Aes Sedai posturing or games with her but god will she use them on other people, and She chided Alanna for bonding Rand..but kept it as an option, and used the Bond whenever it benefited her.

    TDLR : Cadsuane does everything possible on the list of Pet Peeves.

    Oh and the whole domination band thing, Don't spend several books telling me how awesome a character is and then have her leave one of the most potentially dangerous objects in existence in the same building as One of the servants of Satan. You have a cottage in the rump end of Ghealdan that nobody knows about it, which means it is the perfect hiding place for something you really want hidden.
     
  13. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Mat and Birgitte become besties in Chaper 21! <3
     
  14. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    I love the scenes between Mat and Birgitte. Especially this first one ^^
    "Speak we what language, Sounder of the Horn?" So beautifully written and it gives me chills every time :D
     
  15. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Birgitte is the bestest.
     
  16. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    :eek my life is too busy for reading now, so I'm still at chapter 3 :eek But hopefully I'll catch up in march and Easter, when it might be calmer here :shifty
     
  17. Megana Vallentin

    Megana Vallentin Aes Sedai

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Each time I read the scene with Mat and Birgitte, I notice that the way of speaking has changed a little, more formal and sounds unusual for Mat to say those things. Then when we find out it's the Old Tongue, it all makes sense! ^^

    I read Cadsuane's entry in the Companion and something occurred to me. It sounds like she's the hero of a different story. An Aes Sedai who's super powerful, turns down responsibilities for a life of adventure, all those hair charms that do such amazing and yet practical things, and then the tales of some of the things that she's done... If I try to look at the Cadsuane scenes as if Cadsuane was, say, Egwene (after Egwene has had decades of worldly experience) or Polgara from the Belgariad series....WOW does that change things. Her arrogance and rudeness suddenly become a practical cutting-through-the-nonsense since she's had so many years of dealing with people who are incapable of seeing the larger picture around them. Polgara especially feels like an apt metaphr. Suddenly I would love to read books about Cadsuane!
     
  18. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Ooh Megana I love that! Unlike some, I actually do like reading the Cadsuane parts (I don't always like HER, but I enjoy her part in the story) and thinking of her more like Polgara give a whole new feel to it.
     
  19. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Yeah, I do understand Cadsuane to a certain degree. She is very old and frustrated about stupid people, and especially the current crop of Aes Sedai. I certainly agree with her there :| However her entry could not have been a worse way to approach Rand, but it may have been the only one. Remember, she knows that he needs to break, or in her words "remember laughter and tears again" and her antagonizing him works towards that.

    But yes, she is very used to people almost bowing to her, and to getting her way.
     
  20. Leira Galene

    Leira Galene Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah Forum Moderator

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    Re: Re-Readalong: A Crown of Swords: Chapters 17-21

    Yeah, I kind of like how she is so very no-nonsense. Donna from Parks and Rec would call her #bossbitch.