Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Matriz Ca'zon, Jan 24, 2013.
I altered the title as it contains a spoiler which is against the thread rules..Thanks all
From what I remember, Moridin's body was carried out and in the last moments of consciousness an "Aiel woman" confirmed this was how it should be. I'm assuming it was Nakomi again, and have stronger suspicions that she is an incarnation of the Creator. I kind of guessed that she rewarded Rand's selflessness in carrying out his nemesis by using the link to help switch their souls.
My one complaint about the end is the 3 girls not really seeming to care about him anymore. Sure they know he's alive but after all that climactic event, some joy at the survival or sadness at the loss of his body (or even sadness for appearances sake at a funeral) shouldn't be too much to ask. I really hope they ended up with him in the end. Elayne neglected him for a while for the kingdom, Aviendha disappeared to become a wise one but might still decide to stick with the Aiel instead, Min was attached at the hip to him until the others started convincing her to work in unison with them. And now her 'obligation' to the Seanchan might complicate everything. I don't want him ending up alone after all that.
But yeah, my thoughts on his powers were the same as mentioned above: that after playing with the pattern so much and seeing the "secrets of the universe" firsthand, it became possible to use similar techniques in the real world.
Same thing as Raistlin/Fistandatilus... Raistlin (Rand) pulling out the oldest trick in the book when Fistandantilus (Moridin) tried to take over his his body.
Seems RJ has read Dragonlance... which I'm cool with
other mothers have beautiful daughters as well. Seriously, Elayne and Aviendah were pretty annoying most of the time anyway, there's only so much a man should put up with, and Rand was mainly interested in their sexy bodies anyway. Min was cool, although a bit over the top clingy, but she wont have any trouble with the Seanchan brat Tuon. She could join Rand any time. Too bad Tuon didn't get killed, I was hoping Mat would get laid with that Dragon (guns) Lady.
Thnk you Syera! I was trying to figure out how to change the title after I started the thread. As far as I know Aviendha was suppose to have quadruplets. I didn't hear anything about two sets of twins from two different fathers.
Don't forget that much of Rand's grand plan for peace depended on him being dead, and that the last time we see the 3 girls is during his "funeral." I agree that some sorrow may have been in order for appearances sake, but if they had showed joy, it might have done more harm than good.
Here is what I am thinking I may be wrong. I don't believe that their needed to be a connection between Rand and Moridin from the balefire, I think their connection goes back farther to Lews Therin. I think that Lews Therin and Ishamael are brothers, because of the way that he speaks to Rand referring to him only as Lews Therin and the strong familiarity that he had with Therin. He has a lot of passion towards Therin, and only one other person shared such personal knowledge and feelings towards Therin and that was Lanfear his lover. In order to have that much conviction towards someone you must know them personally. I believe Alivia only helped in the transfer of consienceness but the connection of spirit was already their by their relationship.
Brandon's personal belief (which isn't fact) is that when all of the worlds were settling and things were turning back to normal, the soul that wanted to live (Rand) found the body that was living (Moridin's), and the soul that wanted to die (Moridin) found the body that was dying (Rand's).
Awesome point Jeffan Gaidin!! Also, if the girls were happy at the "funeral" it would have undone everything Rand had accomplished.
Oooh I like that theory, Jeffan Gaidin. That's one I'm happy to go with, even if it's only Brandon's speculation
See, if I had heard this right after I had finished this book, I wouldn't have been so confused. This makes a lot of sense, and I'm glad because trying to figure it out on my own was giving me a headache.
I initially thought it may somehow involved something similar to what Elayne did in the bonding and the Aiel first sister ceremony somehow. It seemed that some of the connections to others could be inferred and modified to allow the transfer of consciousness. As for the not being able to channel, I think Rand "evolved" so that in essence he is simply creating part of the pattern now and has no use for the power.
Perhaps it was shell-shock. After months, then years, of straining, tensing, fighting against the Dark One's plans, all the betrayals, the lost friendships, the deaths, the hopeless battles, they may have been too emotionally drained to offer much reaction to anything, even their own husband's "death" and "resurrection". Either way, the Bonds are with the souls, right? So that would explain why they'd still feel the Bond with Rand, now in Moridin's body.
I agree that I would not want Rand to be alone after all he's been through. Min's my favorite of all the three women. Really don't have much opinion for Elayne or Aviendha. So here's hoping Min would follow after Rand. With the Bond, it's not like she won't be able to find him.
The women will take turns, I'm sure.
the explanation that i like most as it fits with evidence in the books is that rand's and mordin's souls switched bodies or the souls melded while they where linked. this type of thing has been shown to happen before even in amol. but that's just the thought that makes most sense to me.
I think Ishmael was a previous incarnation of the dragon who tuned to the dark one and was bound to him. There are references to the dragon having turned to the dark one in previous ages (although I assume the dark one still lost ...)
I think they are all the same being, always were. Like sides of a coin. When the bore was first created it split him apart and the Dark One is the open wound left in the pattern. Rand says in the end that the DO is nothing, never was anything, and is not the enemy. Shortly after this realization, all the powers merge along with Rand, Elan, and the DO. The last book he only ever referred to Moridin as Elan, but when they were burning "Rand's body" he called him Moridin. Just a theory..
I really like that theory kloud. Makes a lot of sense actually.
"Elayne neglected him for a while for the kingdom, Aviendha disappeared to become a wise one but might still decide to stick with the Aiel instead, Min was attached at the hip to him until the others started convincing her to work in unison with them. And now her 'obligation' to the Seanchan might complicate everything. I don't want him ending up alone after all that."
That's my thoughts, too. Elayne and Avi both have very responsible lives, people to take care of. Min, I think she can fake an emotional need to leave the Seanchan to cope with her husband's death or some such other excuse.
To the person who was asking about Avi's kids (and I apologize I forgot the name), it was one of Min's visions, she would have Rand's quads, and there would be "something odd about it." Since in the future (from Avi's third trip to Rhuidean) we know they are known as Dragon Blooded. So, from those we know all four are Rand's.
Has anyone considered that as the barriers weakened, the DO pulled Moridin from a thread in the pattern where Tigraine ignored Gitana, and stayed in Caemlyn to have Galads younger brother instead of fulfilling prophecy in the Aiel waste. That would make the woman with the gray hair, Moridins mom, Tigraine. A Tigraine from a universe that could have been. I believe that is why Rand and Moridin where connected: they were opposite sides of the same coin. If the DO was to beat you, wouldnt it be the most sinister if the DO beat you, with you? Or who you could have been if different choices had of been made. Without angering the Empress... my theory does seem to fit in with the story within the story too. Does any else think this is right?
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