Rand and Moridin

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Matriz Ca'zon, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. Matriz Ca'zon

    Matriz Ca'zon

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    I'm curious as to how Rand and Moridin were connected. I know it went back a few books, but in my re-reads I haven't discovered it. I want to know how Rand's body died and he took over Moridin's body. Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2013
  2. AnAnonymousWOTFan

    AnAnonymousWOTFan

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    Re: Rand's new body

    Book 7, when they locked balefire in Shadar Logoth. That forged the link, and it has been getting stronger over time. Evidently, as Rand's soul moved from his dying body, he pulled a sort of Dark One maneuver and displaced Moridin's soul with his.
     
  3. Matriz Ca'zon

    Matriz Ca'zon

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    Re: Rand's new body

    Thank you so much. I almost totally forgot about the crossing of balefire. I wonder if that's why Moridin started to look like Rand as well?
     
  4. Axis m'Troutilas

    Axis m'Troutilas Gaidin

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    Re: Rand's new body

    They've been experiencing linked experiences

    Moridin feeeling Rands channeling sickness, pain when his hand was burned off etc.

    But as far as I'm aware, Moridin hasn't started to look like Rand, I've no idea what you're talking about there.

    Quote?
     
  5. Matriz Ca'zon

    Matriz Ca'zon

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    Re: Rand's new body

    I want to say it's either in TGS or ToM where Moridin is waiting on the arrival of the other Forsaken and he looks into a mirror and is surprised about the similarities between Rand and himself. I'll have to look it up to be sure.
     
  6. Axis m'Troutilas

    Axis m'Troutilas Gaidin

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    Re: Rand's new body

    Okay you are referring to Graendals comment I think in TGS.


    I don't think it's any physical change in Moridin being displayed there, but perhaps.
     
  7. Keelinnea Isyne

    Keelinnea Isyne Aes Sedai

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    Re: Rand's new body

    I'm wondering how everyone acted when they got done with "Rand's" funeral and noticed "Moridin" missing from the tent he was in. Also I'm currious as to why they didnt at least leave someone there to guard one of the Forsaken.
     
  8. Matriz Ca'zon

    Matriz Ca'zon

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    Re: Rand's new body

    That's exactly it Axis! Thank you! Keelinnea you make a good point. Why wouldn't they guard Moridin's body? Didn't Nynaeve say herself that he was getting better?
     
  9. Kiranthus Solaron

    Kiranthus Solaron

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    Re: Rand's new body

    I think the only lightsiders that would recognize it as Moridin's body would be Moraine and Nyneave. I would only assume theyd be let in on the secret once he was found missing. As for the guards, I would imagine that would be Alivia's job to get them out of the way after she left the goody bag.
     
  10. Laurelin Allendra

    Laurelin Allendra

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    Re: Rand's new body

    I agree - Nynaeve is already so suspicious, and she's far from stupid. She already knows something's up because of how Elayne, Min, and Aviendha are acting. When "Moridin" turned up missing I don't think it'd take her long to put those pieces together.
     
  11. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Re: Rand's new body

    Galad also thinks that Demandred looks like Rand, so it could just be a comment on someone's bearing.
     
  12. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Re: Rand's new body

    Who else knows that Min and Rand were bonded? (Or the other two). That ought to have been highly suspiscious, though I suppose they could have claimed to have released the bond.
     
  13. AnAnonymousWOTFan

    AnAnonymousWOTFan

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    Re: Rand's new body

    And Perrin. He saw Moridin when in Tel'aran'rhiod's Shayol Ghul.
     
  14. Alora Sionn

    Alora Sionn Gaidin

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    Re: Rand's new body

    So...does Rand father Aviendha's kids with his new body? I know they shared that last night together but she has I think 4 kids, so I think it must get known at least among the Aiel that he is still alive.
     
  15. Tehmpus

    Tehmpus

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    Re: Rand's new body

    Maybe I missed something, but how in the heck did Rand get to switch bodies with Moridin? I know that they were connected via the Balefire, but I don't see how this occurred exactly. Any ideas? Did Alivia do something to facilitate it at all?
     
  16. Kiranthus Solaron

    Kiranthus Solaron

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    Re: Rand's new body

    One could guess that when the three realised that Rand was in Moridin's body and getting healthier that one or more of the three showed thier happiness physically. The two sets of babies looking like they come from two different fathers implies at least Avi did so. For her it was only a day since she was with Rand in his body. We assume she got pregnant from since it was acknowledged in her visions that she has the Dragon's children and that was her last chance with him as the Dragon. The maidens saw her go in to his tent with that intention so if she shows up pregnant immediately afterwards they could confirm the kids are his. Perhaps in addition to magic pipe powers Rand is also super fertile? I am not sure how realistic the posibility of bearing two sets of twins by two different fathers at the same time conceived a day apart is, but hey .. its a fantasy book.
     
  17. Owin al'Kef

    Owin al'Kef

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    Re: Rand's new body

    I was always under the impression that Aviendha's kids were quadruplets, which would have made it possible for Rand to be the father for all of them. Does it ever say in the books that Aviendha has two sets of twins?
     
  18. Snowflake

    Snowflake

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    Re: Rand's new body

    Thanks. That is at least one lead to explain the body/soul/mind transfer a bit. I am listening to the audiobooks since book 2, and it's quite easy to miss something when you get distracted or fall asleep (reading gives a more thorough picture).

    I also have a few questions, and hope for answers:

    1.) Is Rand in his new body still bonded to the three girls, or not? I guess he is, because they all don't seem sad, but I'm not sure. If they are not, it is a bit weird that they aren't really sad, despite that he achieved his goal to seal the Dark One.

    2.) Rand carrying out the Forsaken from the pit was still the "real" Rand, or did Moridin carry out Rand because of their special relationship?. Did the Transfer of mind/soul happen sometime in the tent, or at the event with the huge beam of light shooting out of the tunnel? I guess that's up for everybody's own fantasy and speculation.

    3.) How many people know how Moridin looks? Isn't Rand in danger to get killed because somebody thinks he's a Forsaken?

    4.) Why did Rand loose the ability to channel? Did every Channeller loose it, or just he because of the event in the pit? Does he now have the ability of a dream-walker outside of a dream ((lighting his pipe by pure willpower) ... to simply think something and it becomes real)?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  19. Owin al'Kef

    Owin al'Kef

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    Re: Rand's new body

    1) I believe that they are still bonded, especially because at the end when the three girls are watching the funeral, it says that they felt the bond growing stronger (or something like that, I can't remember the exact quote).

    2) I agree that that's likely up for everyone's personal opinion, but I like to think that Rand carried Moridin out of the pit :)

    3) The only people who would know who Moridin looks like are the other Forsaken, who aren't much of a problem now, Nynaeve and Moraine, who almost certainly know what's going on, and any Darkfriends who he had interacted with. After he was reincarnated as Moridin, he never really showed his face in the world, so I don't think Rand is in too much danger of being mistaken for a Forsaken.

    4) One theory I've heard is that Rand burnt himself in the pit while using Callandor, and I'm pretty sure that other Channelers can still channel because the White Tower and Black Tower both seem to go on. As for dreamwalking in real life, the best theory I've heard is that he has so much experience manipulating the Pattern from his battle with the DO that now he can do it whenever he wants.
     
  20. Ceres Danairon

    Ceres Danairon

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    Re: Rand's new body

    There are those who saw Moridin´s body afterwards, in the tent where they both were placed. Damer Flinn has seen him and probably also a lot of other people who came visiting Rand and took a glimpse of a "real honest to goodness Forsaken". Several were around in the tent, I didn´t bother to check the book now. They may not know that it´s Moridin/Elan Morin Tedronai/Ishamael, but they know it´s a Forsaken. He can´t really show his face around them, they would probably shoot first and then ask questions!