Perrin as a Dreamwalker (some spoilers)

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Kira Embri, May 18, 2015.

  1. Kira Embri

    Kira Embri

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    In the last book Perrin very intermingled between the world of dreams and reality without gateway. And is there a possibility for another dreamwalker , who is not a wolf brother, to use the same method?
     
  2. Aulrick Vendour

    Aulrick Vendour Gaidin

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    I assume there is.
    The Aiel wise ones said it was an evil thing. I always assumed that they refer to channeling, but we know they are not all channelers, so it's possible they once had wise ones who could do that as well.

    But it's also possible that it has something to do with his wolvish nature, as they live in both world at the same time.
     
  3. Ixialdor Lathanril

    Ixialdor Lathanril Gaidin

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    I think yes. The dreamwalkers tell Egwene that she must not use that method. Slayer learned the method and he was not a dreamwalker or wolf-brother. I believe it is possible, I am curious on the negative effects of it. They never really went into what happened. Maybe, they become Aelfin or Eelfin. :scratch
     
  4. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Did Egwene use a gateway to enter TAR in the flesh?
     
  5. Kira Embri

    Kira Embri

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    Yes, she did. I can not remember a case when she did not use it. But Egwene knew not all.
     
  6. Kira Embri

    Kira Embri

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    Generally it is an interesting question .

    we know that Wise Ones did not know gateways
    we know that some Dreamwalkers can to enter TAR in the flesh
    we know that some Dreamwalkers can not channel.

    but
    Perhaps you need to have two souls?
    Wise Ones have not two souls.:look

    In general, I need to know this.
    Suppose a person can channel and Dreamwalk. Someone used the shield to block him from the One Power. Can the good Dreamwalker go into the world of dreams without using gateway and One power?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
  7. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Yes. Didn't Egwene do so?
     
  8. Kira Embri

    Kira Embri

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    Maybe I missed it. Where was it?
    I remember only one episode, Stone of Tear. She was in TAR in sleep, not in the flesh. Or not?
    And in order to go to Salidar Egwene used gateways.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
  9. Ixialdor Lathanril

    Ixialdor Lathanril Gaidin

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    I believe that is right. The only persons I know of from the book who went in the flesh without a gateway were Slayer and Perrin. Even Rand and Rhavin used a Gateway.
     
  10. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Oh. I misread the question -- I thought you were asking if a channeler could just go to TAR, not go in the flesh, if they were blocked.
     
  11. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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    Didn't Gaul go with Perrin during that last big quest?
     
  12. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    That's right Mai!
     
  13. Ixialdor Lathanril

    Ixialdor Lathanril Gaidin

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    But Perrin shifted him. Perrin had to hold on to Gaul to take him there. I don't think Gaul went on his own.
     
  14. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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    Ah, yes, that sounds familiar.
     
  15. Cold Manshima

    Cold Manshima

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    When Gaul and Perrin first go, it is through a gateway. When Perrin learns to jump into TAR in the flesh, he can take others with him (and back out). I can't recall precisely, but doesn't Perrin rescue Faile this way in the aftermath of the battles?

    Other dreamwalkers can learn this method, as intimated by Lanfear. She says something like "I could do that, but since I can channel I never bothered to learn how".
     
  16. Kira Embri

    Kira Embri

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    Really? This is great!
    Please tell us where she is talking about? I now have no translation, the English version I can not read too much text . :(
     
  17. Cold Manshima

    Cold Manshima

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    In the chapter 'The Wyld' (last page or so of the chapter).

    "Tell me how to do what Slayer does," Perrin said, pushing her hand away. "How does he move between worlds?"
    "I cannot explain it to you," she said, turning away, "as it is a skill I have never had to learn. I use other methods. Perhaps you can beat it out of him. I would be quick, assuming you wish to stop Graendal."

    So my earlier paraphrasing was a bit simplified, but I think there's definitely an implication that Lanfear could learn this skill if she wanted to. Aside from being able to channel, Lanfear is a strong Dreamwalker. It really seems to me that if Lanfear couldn't channel, she could still learn how to enter TAR in the flesh. To be fair, what I'm saying here is an interpretation, it isn't spelled out in black or white. There are other interpretations; Lanfear could be wrong, or lying, I suppose.
     
  18. Kira Embri

    Kira Embri

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    Thank you))

    Maybe the story Brigitte can somehow help. She was thrown out of the world of dreams in the flesh. And when she came back after the death of the dream world , it was also in the flesh. Perhaps the boundaries between the two worlds is much thinner than it seems, and even an ordinary dreamer with one soul can overcome them
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  19. Cold Manshima

    Cold Manshima

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    I agree that Birgitte's knowledge of TAR is a shockingly under-utilized resource, after she becomes Elayne's Warder. For example, when they meet with her in TAR (before she gets ripped into reality) she says that anyone knowingly in TAR sends out "ripples" that she can use to locate them.

    Lanfear seems to use this ability as well, when Perrin is nearly killed by Slayer, and shifts away to some other continent somewhere. Lanfear pops up out of the blue and scorns Perrin, saying that apparently he isn't good enough for her, if Slayer defeated him. As far as I could tell, the only way she could've located him at that point was by sensing the "ripples" given off by someone aware that they're in TAR.

    None of our heroes ever use this ability, or even consider using it. How come Elayne or Nynaeve never asked Birgitte how to locate people in this manner? Or on the flip-side, how to prevent people from locating them this way. Note that Perrin can only track Slayer when he shifts away by smelling the location he shifts to; none of the wolves mention the "ripples" to Perrin. Likewise, none of the Wise One Dreamwalkers ever mention this ability (I'm 99% sure of this, anyways.)

    And that's just one example! If Birgitte spent thousands of years entirely in TAR, imagine the enormous knowledge she should have about it. She should have been able to teach our heroes things that the Forsaken, Wise Ones, and wolves never "dreamed" of (haha). Which also makes me wonder, shouldn't she have been able to completely destroy Moghedien? Like how Perrin stops balefire; when Moghedien attacks Birgitte, Birgitte should be able to just make the attack disappear, and turn Moghedien into an idiot, or drop an avalanche on her head, on engulf her with flames, etc. Granted, you could make the arguement that she was caught by surprise, but still!
     
  20. Almira ni'Caldazare

    Almira ni'Caldazare Citizen

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    I would think that some dreamers from the tower could walk into the world of dreams in the flesh but they are so rare...
    I hope they write a section on dreamers or on TAR in the new encyclopedia coming out.