On Verin and her actions

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Zanus Athara, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. Zanus Athara

    Zanus Athara

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    Messages:
    164
    deleted
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  2. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,246
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Well, she had limited time with Egwene, and had so much else to tell her, and she did genuinely think that Mat would open the letter almost immediately... And if she had phrased it differently, he would have, imo :look
     
  3. Kerna Shedrian

    Kerna Shedrian Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,929
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Plus there were other things Egwene had to do and if Mat had read it and Egwene was told then that's doubling resources. Sometimes you just need one person for the job!
     
  4. Ixialdor Lathanril

    Ixialdor Lathanril Gaidin

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    4,347
    Location:
    Virginia
    I could see that. She probably banked on Mat's resources as the General so the Amrylin could focus her efforts on other matters.
     
  5. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,059
    The question that bothers me after my last reread: Could Egwene have saved Verin's life? I was wondering if she could have shouted for help. Was Egwene's AS minder at the door before Verin died? There were a few minutes between Verin falling asleep and actual death. Would have been enough to get help to save Verin?

    As to Verin telling Egwene about the Caemlyn attack, it would have taken all but 2-3 seconds; and I think it would have been very possible. She could have written about it at the beginning of the book; or inserted a slip of paper about it before hand.

    But in all fairness, Elayne had prior warning from her BA interrogation; and still didn't connect the dots.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  6. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,048
    It would depend on the poison used, theoretically this poison is the same that Verin was going to use on Cadsuane in book 9, and if she trusts the poison to not lead back to her in an assassination attempt on the "bestest Aes Sedai Everz" it has to be really hard to detect.
     
  7. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,246
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Would you need to detect it to heal it though?
     
  8. Almira ni'Caldazare

    Almira ni'Caldazare Citizen

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,115
    Location:
    OFallon, MO
    Nynaeve healed stilling and burning and maddness. Veryn did not know all of that but I have a feeling Nynaeve could have healed her. (This is just me guessing) :lol:look
     
  9. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,059
    I don't know if knowledge of the poison type would have been necessary. Siuan healed the BK assassin poison from Gareth Bryne. And AS were used to healing food poisoning from different things due to spoilage.

    Regardless of the above, I think Egwene had a mental freeze and just sat there waiting for Verin to die; when it could have been possible to attempt to save Verin, even if success wasn't guaranteed or likely.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
  10. Aiyanna Leotie

    Aiyanna Leotie Citizen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    Warrenton, Va
    Could it be maybe she was in shock of it, a lot of information of what Verin was telling her? Her mind racing of all the black ajahs that were in the tower and in the rebel camp...what to do to get them all. The Black Ajah another thing to deal with along with wanting to make the tower whole again. I just finished book 12 and started up on 13 so I really don't know if anything else comes up to answer why she didn't. I would think too, it was out of respect for Verin. For her to use her life to work within the Black Ajah to study them and get info.
     
  11. Dnae Ila

    Dnae Ila Gaidin

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    11,035
    Whether or not this was Egwene's reasoning, I hold to this logic: if Verin had been saved after spilling the Dark's secrets, she would have done so before her "last hour" thus breaking her vow, and the Dark One would have had claim to her soul. By letting her die within the hour, Verin slipped through the loophole and the Dark One would not have claim on her.
     
  12. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,059
    This logic would have prevented Verin from doing all the research she's done in the first place. It would not have allowed Verin to help Rand from book 2 onward. It would have not allowed her to do anything to undermine the DO; which she was doing for 70 years. And she specifically says that her warder Tomas is a Darkfriend who was looking for a way out; and she offered it to him.

    In the end, binder oaths depend on what the bound person "believes" not what is "actual." The ferrets could not say that the Red Ajah rumors spread by the rebels were lies. They believed those rumors to be true; so the binder prevented them from saying something against what they believed was true.

    The same applied to Verin believing this was the last hour of her life. As long as she believed this was the last hour of her life; because she took poison, she could do anything. Saving her would not take her back in time ... it would just stop her from further betrayal after being saved. She only needed to be held till the oath rod was secured to free her from her Dark Oaths, like Talene and other Black sisters caught by the Tower's BA hunters.
     
  13. Brandegoris Al'Mor

    Brandegoris Al'Mor Citizen

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    5,884
    Location:
    Eureka , CA
    I think she had Faith. Sounds crazy from a Black sister! But Egwene had other things to see to. She couldn't have her mind sidetracked.
    Verin trusted that Mat would take care of things and the Creator would see to it(?). But Egwene had her OWN battle to attend to and she needed to see to that. After all if the Tower wasn't Whole then it was doomed anyhow....
    That's My Opinion anyhow!
    Plus Verin is basically just weird with a very ODD sense of Humor!
     
  14. Almira ni'Caldazare

    Almira ni'Caldazare Citizen

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,115
    Location:
    OFallon, MO
    Could Verin be a seer or a dreamer?
    She asked Perrin when he would give up the ax for the hammer in book 4 and had scars from TAR.
     
  15. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,059
    I don't think she was a dreamer; not all people who enter TAR are: e.g. Nynaeve and Elayne. But she did have access to the Shadow prophecies, somehow! And she was probably a scholar in the Prophecies of the Dragon (Light prophecies). So she knew much, much more than most people, Moiraine included.
     
  16. Markus al'Dreak

    Markus al'Dreak

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Illinois
    At first I found it kind of shocking that Verin had become a Black Sister, but then it started to make sense to me when thinking about some of her past actions. I would like to know more of what she had done as a Black Sister; what role she really played in some of the situations throughout the story (maybe a short novella/handbook on all the information Verin gave to Egwene).
     
  17. Dreavyn Maerie

    Dreavyn Maerie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    392
    Location:
    Vancouver Island
    I would definitely read that.

    It's actually kind of funny... I didn't care much for Verin until I found out she was black ajah and a double agent. Then she became one of my favourites and upon rereading the earlier books, I liked and paid more attention to her.

    As for why she didn't tell Egwene about Caemlyn, I agree that it was because she believed that Mat would open the letter fairly quickly and would take action. Therefore there was no reason for her to also tell Egwene.
     
  18. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,059
    It would not have helped. Elayne already knew from interrogating the Black Sisters that an invasion of Caemlyn was pending. But she didn't figure out how it would be carried out. She had ample warning; but .... :)