Olver?

[Emerald ní Róhan]

Sadly, I think it's true. Birgitte will be pretty up there in age by the time Gaidal is old enough for girls. 'tis a tragic situation.

 

[Kallaes Doon]

We know from Min that Birgitte does find him eventually.

Auras danced around her and images flickered, more than Min had ever seen around anyone, thousands it seemed, cascading over one another. Those multitude of images and auras flashed by too quickly for her to make out any clearly, but she was certain they indicated more adventures than a woman could have in one lifetime. Strangely, some were connected to an ugly man who was older than she, and others to an ugly man who was much younger, yet somehow Min knew they were the same man.

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/prophecies/viewings.html

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

I have a strange idea... Prolly not true...
Maybe it's not a baby that was born, but is still in the womb?
Can one of Rand and Elayn's babies have the soul of one of the heroes of the horn?
That would be so cool.

 

[Hilwa Katir]

Aulrick..that would be so COOL

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

Hmm. That might actually fit the timeline if someone cared to work it out.

Kallaes, that viewing isn't necessarily an indication of the future. In fact, the description seems to indicate that it connects to Birgitte's past instead.

EDIT:

THOM: A man-- not him-- juggling fire

This seems likely to refer to Thom's nephew, which would be in the past.

Lan - Seven ruined towers around his head

This seems to refer to his heritage in general rather than any specific event (other than when the towers were destroyed, anyway), as would the image of the baby and sword.

The Dragonmount FAQ, which is linked from the Viewings page, holds the same opinion. They need to do some updating, though.

 

[Kallaes Doon]

Hmm. That might actually fit the timeline if someone cared to work it out.

Kallaes, that viewing isn't necessarily an indication of the future. In fact, the description seems to indicate that it connects to Birgitte's past instead.

The problem with that interpretation is that Jordan apparently said all Min's viewings pertain to future events. Personally, I question the veracity of the claim but it is the standard argument provided as to why Min's viewing of a baby with a sword must refer to Lan's child as opposed to his own infancy.

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

I never heard that interpretation of Min's viewing of Lan before. I also question the veracity of that claim. Especially in the face of her viewing of Birgitte. If she's been ripped out of TAR like that, maybe she has to be reattached to the Wheel. If so, I don't know that I see that happening if she is only acting as Elayne's Warder and Captain of the Guard. Too many other people are in place to become major heroes.

That said, Min sees more adventures than could be fit into one lifetime. So either Birgitte will have many more lifetimes of adventure ahead of her (which I am inclined to doubt) or it is what I call a "reference vision" which identifies something about who the person is, as would be the case with the vision around Lan.

I'm going to go look at the viewings again and see if there are any others like that...

 

[Kallaes Doon]

Here's a link to one of the places the future only is used to argue against Min's viewing of Lan.

http://www.tarvalon.net/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19934&p=671831#p671831

The viewing is directly in line with what we know about Lan's past but apparently we are supposed to ignore the obvious.

Edit: Here's a post a little higher up that thread which strongly imples the Lan's child interpretation:
http://www.tarvalon.net/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19934&p=671831#p669365

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

Naturally, I had to argue the point in that thread.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

There is a thing about Min and TAR, which is problematic. We know that time is working funny in TAR. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower, etc. That means that Min's viewings can see different times in TAR, or people related to TAR or bound there in some way.

 

[Midian Venamar]

Why do you think there's any correlation between T'A'R and Min's viewings?

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

The only correlation there would be that Dreamers/Dreamwalkers can see visions of possible futures. Really, Min's viewings are about pieces of the Web. That is Moiraine's theory at least. This should theoretically include aspects of the past.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

No, you missed my point.
Heroes are people connected to the wheel, right? When not alive, they wait in TAR. When Min has a viewing about one of them, then she can, in theory, see them there as well, can she not? BUT, if time works differently there, then it's possible that when she sees something, it would have already happened, because in TAR time moved faster...
Though I suppose we'd need to know more about how Min's viewings work exactly in order to be sure.

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

Well, the only Hero she's ever viewed is Birgitte, right? I can't recall whether she saw anything of the Heroes in TGH.

But in TAR, time only moves forward. If Min can see multiple lives (and Gaidal Cain) related to Birgitte, then there are only two options: Birgitte will become reattached to the Wheel and have many more lives with Cain. Or Min's viewings *can* touch on the past.

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

There's not much of Min during Falme, but what there is is interesting.

Min struggled up the cobblestone street, pushing through crowds that stood white-faced and staring, those who were not screaming hysterically. A few ran, seemingly without any idea of where they were running, but most moved like poorly handled puppets, more afraid to go than to stay. She searched the faces, hoping to find Egwene, or Elayne, or Nynaeve, but all she saw were Falmen. And there was something drawing her on, as surely as if she had a string tied to her.
Once she turned to look back. Seanchan ships burned in the harbor, and she could see more in flames off the harbor mouth. Many squarish vessels were already small against the setting sun, sailing west as fast as damane could make the winds drive them, and one small ship was beating away from the harbor, tilting to catch a wind to take it along the coast. Spray. She did not blame Bayle Domon for not waiting longer, not after what she had seen; she thought it a wonder he had remained so long.
There was one Seanchan vessel in the harbor not burning, though its towers were black from fires already extinguished. As the tall ship crept toward the harbor mouth, a figure on horseback suddenly appeared around the cliffs skirting the harbor. Riding across the water. Min's mouth fell open. Silver glittered as the figure raised a bow; a streak of silver lanced to the boxy ship, a gleaming line connecting bow and ship. With a roar she could hear even at that distance, fire engulfed the foretower anew, and sailors rushed about the deck.
Min blinked, and when she looked again, the mounted figure was gone. The ship still slowly made way toward the ocean, the crew fighting the flames.
She gave herself a shake and started to climb the street again. She had seen too much that day for someone riding a horse across water to be more than a momentary distraction. Even if it really was Birgitte and her bow. And Artur Hawkwing. I did see him. I did.

I'm curious about when she saw Hawkwing, that seems to have happpened off screen.

No viewings off that passage of Birgitte anyway.

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

Sounds like a person has to actually be alive for Birgitte to get a read on them, then. That just leaves the question of whether Min is seeing only future lives for Birgitte (which I am inclined to doubt) or whether she is seeing a general aura that includes Birgitte's past and acts as general knowledge about who she is. This is what makes more sense to me.

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

I would hesitate to be drawing conclusions like that based on that small snippit

Relevant RJ quotes time

Direct verbatim quote this time which is sweet.

Interview: Nov 11th, 1998
MSN eFriends Interview (Verbatim)
Slayer
Do Min's viewings always predict the future, or do some tell about the past, mainly the seven towers around Lan in The Eye of the World?
Robert Jordan
Um, her viewings are always concerning the future.

Interview: Sep 3rd, 2005
DragonCon Report - Isabel (Verbatim)
Question
The auras that Min sees, would they ever show the person's past or other elements that are simply unique to that person?
Robert Jordan
No, it is the future.

Interview: Oct 27th, 2009
BYU: TGS Midnight Release - Jennifer McBride (Paraphrased)
Luke
Has anyone ever had the same ability as Min? And do you know how it is caused or how the ability works?
Brandon Sanderson
The ability works quite explicitly from her being able to see glimmers in the Pattern. She is seeing what is being woven in the future and that is how most of the Foretelling powers work. He was actually pretty explicit in the notes about that. Though some of them of course, there are ones that are strict, meaning they see the Pattern, some of them you see how the Pattern might be. She sees the Pattern as it will be. Has anyone ever had it before? Yeah, from what I read it never said it explicitly, but it implied that this is a power that could exist again and has existed before, but there are no lists of anyone that's had it before. It's definitely open that somebody could have had it before, but he doesn't actually say specifically.

 

[Emerald ní Róhan]

I need some kind of fist-shaking emote just for... every time you post, Axis.

I hate it when you prove me wrong with actual facts!

 

[Morrighan Daghdera]

Just be glad he hasn't trouted you. Yet.

 

[Axis m'Troutilas]

heheheh

Yeah

I can be annoying like that.