New Procedure for Leaving a Senior Member Group

Morgana Arakos

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During the discussion about Unaffiliated SMs it was brought up re: a group of Unaffiliated decide they want to form a new group, and the process for that is as it has always been if enough people wanted this, which is to put in a proposal to do so :) I'm in favor of a Kin group from previous discussions (not for myself), so if anyone wanted to start that conversation we can get it hashed out and then proposed.

Does the proposal for the new group have to come from people who want to join it? If not, I'd be happy to help put something together. I plan to stay Blue, but I think the addition of a Kin or wilders senior member group, or something similar, would be a great addition to the site.
 

Alora Sionn

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I would say step one is recognize the need, any current or soon to be Unaffiliated SMs that are concerned about not finding their home in the current groups would put forward that they see that need for themselves.
Step two would be the proposal of how it will work, those details, and those I think anyone willing can help with
Step 3 would be culture elements of the new group which should be fronted primarily by the future members of that group
 

Morgana Arakos

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That all makes sense, thank you!
 

Keisha al'Benn

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....so if anyone wanted to start that conversation we can get it hashed out and then proposed.
Where does one 'start this conversation' please? Should it be here or in the Abandoned Ajah groups?
Sorry to ask silly questions, but I'm very excited about a 'Kin' and would like to do what I can to get it going.
 

Cassie Dainar

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My suggestion would be to start with the unaffiliated SMs in the abandoned Ajah to get a feel for level of interest. Even if others help to pitch the idea, there would need to be enough people to join that new group to do fill any positions (whatever they might be called). Once interest is established, you might do a group PM or thread in General or something to get any others on board. Just my thought, seems cleanest in my head instead of using this thread or board.
 

Alora Sionn

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What Cassie said, it's good to start the convo there now and assuming there are those that will be taking advantage of this Unaffiliated SM change soon, they can weigh in when they get there :)
 

Alexstrasz Ruskein

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I think if we use the hall more it helps the site.

It would definitely be an opportunity for JMs and SMs to mingle more, which is a good thing.


Having Citizens and JMs view the Hall would ruin the surprise aspect of Raisings, but other than that, I like the idea Calen.

Hall terms are only for six months, though, so there could be a rule that JMs in the Hall aren't eligible for raising until their term expires (although if a group is ready to raise them, they could request comments and put the packet together during that six months so it's ready to go when they're out of the Hall).


To tie in the question about bonding, what if, for example, I was Unaffiliated, and bonded. Then, after visiting different groups and learning about them all, I found my home in Red. Do I keep trying to find a different home to keep my bond? Do I sit around and wait to get my golds to keep it? Do I dissolve it after such a relatively short period of time?

It might not wind up being a relatively short period of time, though, and statistically speaking, far more people are going to find their way to non-Red groups than Red. Also, anyone unaffiliated knows there is the possibility that they might wind up in Red, and their bond would have to be dissolved. That's a choice for them to make, not to be made for them.


we even discussed all of the implications of having to lose bonds after finding a home. For example, I leave a Company and Aspire to an Ajah where I can't keep both of my bonds. In my personal opinion, since Guesting can be a bit stressful, I think those bondmates are great to have someone to talk to during the process and you're able to have a conversation about where you feel most at home and maybe let your bond come to a natural end, in your own time, based on where you're most comfortable instead of having a deadline forced upon you by the rules. The intent was to make things more flexible and less painful for people who decided to leave their group, which is already a tough decision. What I don't want is to add stress by having a bond form that might need to be dissolved down the road because of where your home is.

Disallowing bonds doesn't make anything more flexible or less stressful, though. It just imposes limitations. If the goal is to encourage people to find a new home and not just float around in limbo, these limitations make sense. But if that's the case, don't try to persuade everyone that you're doing it because you care about their emotional well-being.

It isn't "adding stress" to allow someone to have a bond that MIGHT be dissolved upon re-raising. It allows people to decide for themselves what makes them happy, and to decide whether they're willing to take the risk because a relationship on the site means enough to them that they want to make it official. Basically, it gives them agency as adults, instead of treating them like they're just going to get themselves in trouble if some benevolent and wise Exec isn't micromanaging them.


Further, how many bonds do I get? Do I get 2 because I left Green? Am I stuck with no bonds because I left Red?

You would get the minimum non-zero number. If you join a group that allows more, then you would get more at that time.

So, you wouldn't LOSE any bonds while you were unaffiliated, if you already had any. But if you were unbonded, you would be able to bond one person, or two if you had the merits for it.
 

Calen Velervron

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I am against the idea of another company or group. I feel like I am probably very quickly going to be outvoted which is fine. If you look at the companies right now, there isn't a ton of bristling activity. I would encourage people to join and help the companies that already exist instead of further diluting the membership pool.

But, I want to make it clear I understand where people are coming from and this is just my opinion.
 

Elania al'Manir

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I think that's a good point, Calen. There are already eleven membership groups, which seems like a lot for our current population. However, I do like the idea of a group that's similar to the Kin as it has a distinct tone. It sounds like it would be for people who are semi-retired, who don't feel like they fit in with their group but don't want to go through the rigmarole of finding a new one. There would be general camaraderie based on a shared experience, but the members likely wouldn't be the types of people to get super involved with the site or even each other. It would be a more permanent position with the full benefits of senior membership that are being discussed here (bonding and specific group forum access), separate than the temporary stop unaffiliated SM-ship is currently meant to be on a person's journey into a new home.
 

Yelenia Hylraren

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Is somebody who had two bonds because of merit, and demoted, I find the bond argument to be a little ridiculous.

When I was torn between Red and Brown, (I miss you Reds<3) the bond issue came up for me as a concern, but I also talked to both of my - at that time - former bondmates, about the possibility that I would be down to one. Between invited guests and not being super concerned about forum access, it wasn't a deciding factor. If forum access is a deciding factor for someone, they probably ought to explore that group as an actual place to stay instead? I would suggest anyone who finds themself in that position be able to have the same type of discussion with their bondmates.
 

Alora Sionn

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I think that's a good point, Calen. There are already eleven membership groups, which seems like a lot for our current population. However, I do like the idea of a group that's similar to the Kin as it has a distinct tone. It sounds like it would be for people who are semi-retired, who don't feel like they fit in with their group but don't want to go through the rigmarole of finding a new one. There would be general camaraderie based on a shared experience, but the members likely wouldn't be the types of people to get super involved with the site or even each other. It would be a more permanent position with the full benefits of senior membership that are being discussed here (bonding and specific group forum access), separate than the temporary stop unaffiliated SM-ship is currently meant to be on a person's journey into a new home.
That's exactly how I see it being like :)
 

Nadezhda al'Lanahrin

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I certainly understand the point made by Calen Gaidin. Perhaps the Kin can be specifically a group for “retired” Senior Members?
 

Calen Velervron

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However, I do like the idea of a group that's similar to the Kin as it has a distinct tone. It sounds like it would be for people who are semi-retired, who don't feel like they fit in with their group but don't want to go through the rigmarole of finding a new one.

I think Elania is right. I think a group for retirement could be a good fit that I didn’t consider
 

Morwynna Raevyn

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This is a very interesting change, a very good idea.
 
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