New Procedure for Leaving a Senior Member Group

Mystica Ari'Yena

Aes Sedai
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
2,470
Location
Belgium
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
very, very nice work. Thank you !
 

Leese Sulan

Gaidin
Joined
Sep 3, 2004
Messages
2,150
Location
The Cold Place
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
I appreciate this, and that a whole bunch of people reached out to let me know of the change.

Can I ask for clarification for why forming a bond as an unaffiliated SM is not allowed? I want to be Gaidin but feel like joining a company should be an optional bonus (as they did not exist in the series) and not a requirement to reach the same SM privileges as everyone else at SM level.

From my current understanding of these new rules, it sounds like I could finally return to SM level but never be able to bond unless I do join a company. I appreciate these new changes but I still feel kinda sad about that other half of it.
 

Alenya Al'Roran

Aes Sedai
Social Marketing Manager
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
9,084
Location
Groveland, FL
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #43
We decided to reserve new bonds for members of the Ajahs and Companies.
 

Leese Sulan

Gaidin
Joined
Sep 3, 2004
Messages
2,150
Location
The Cold Place
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
I read that as: “You can have the same rights once you conform.”

This is a familiar feeling.

Thanks but no thanks. I reject how everyone else who already had a bond gets to essentially get it back, but I have no hope of that unless I fake connection with groups I tried to feel at home with for close to 10 years.


I hope this does help some people feel better. Its not enough to make me feel like an equal person on this site and so I’ll carry on with my life. I miss the people here, but I’m not accepting half measures anymore.

Best wishes to all.
 

Jaryd Kosari

Resident Trash Panda
Aes Sedai
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
7,538
Pronouns
  1. They - Them
  2. He - Him
My read is that being unaffiliated is specifically intended to be a temporary transitional thing while choosing a new group (rather than becoming a new group all on its own), so certain decisions (such as the bond restriction, being removed from invited groups, and not having rep in the Hall) were made to encourage people into the decision making process rather than simply staying unaffiliated indefinitely. Does that seem accurate?

I think overall this is a good decision, but I suspect people asking about it are looking for a deeper "why" than simply "because we decided to do it."
 

Ilverin Matriam

Aes Sedai
Director of Research and Records
Tower Gatekeeper
Historian
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
12,450
Location
Bulgaria
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
Ilverin#3401
Unafilliated SM is not supposed to be a new membersip group. As Unafilliated SM you will keep bonds created when you were Aes Sedai or Gaidin in your previous group, something that those who demoted so far were not able to do.
As far as I am aware, you will have Aes Sedai under your name (since you were an Aes Sedai once upon a time and demoted from that), until you choose a new group and are "raised" into it again. From what you are saying however, it seems that you will use the Unafilliated SM group as your membership group and will not join a new one, which is not the goal of this change.
 

Morgana Arakos

Aes Sedai
Moderator
Joined
Mar 3, 2003
Messages
2,884
Age
33
Location
NC
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
I'm not sure that's quite accurate, since unaffiliated members can stay unaffiliated for as long as they want. That means that in practice it's an option for staying a senior member without choosing a new group, though there wouldn't be a route to be raised unaffiliated from the beginning.

From earlier in the thread:
Thank you so much! This seems like a huge improvement. Will unaffiliated senior members be able to remain unaffiliated if they don't feel like they belong in a particular group? I know this has been an issue raised before by others who wanted to be senior members but didn't feel at home in one group or another, and I'm curious if this might be a solution to that too.

Just like with any rank, they can stay as long as they'd like.
 

Leira Galene

Aes Sedai
Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
13,125
Location
Kiruna, Sweden
Pronouns
  1. They - Them
  2. She - Her
I think the "why" is because people may have wanted to demote but also to keep their jobs that require being an SM and/or bonds, and this is a relatively simple and straightforward solution to that problem. Does there need to be more why than that?
 

Ilverin Matriam

Aes Sedai
Director of Research and Records
Tower Gatekeeper
Historian
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
12,450
Location
Bulgaria
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
Ilverin#3401
Absolutely, people are free to "demote" and stay Unaffiliated for a s long as it's needed, but the purpose of the current change is not to create a new group of Unaffiliated Senior members. The purpose is to still "demote" from a group you do feel you might not belong to anymore, but keep you well deserved SM status ( as it should have been before) .

And as Leira pointed out - keep a position that also requires SM status.
 

Jaryd Kosari

Resident Trash Panda
Aes Sedai
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
7,538
Pronouns
  1. They - Them
  2. He - Him
Yup, that's what I thought! Thank you. <3
 

Keisha al'Benn

Aes Sedai
Moderator
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
11,367
Location
Utah, USA
Absolutely, people are free to "demote" and stay Unaffiliated for a s long as it's needed, but the purpose of the current change is not to create a new group of Unaffiliated Senior members. The purpose is to still "demote" from a group you do feel you might not belong to anymore, but keep you well deserved SM status ( as it should have been before) .

And as Leira pointed out - keep a position that also requires SM status.

Ok so this is NOT a place for 'retirement'? I had to become a Citizen because I did not want to go through all the Guesting and stuff all over again....but I swear it felt like I had been Stilled!
I was so excited about this new procedure, but now it appears it's not what I thought it was and maybe I don't belong here after all....?
 

Morgana Arakos

Aes Sedai
Moderator
Joined
Mar 3, 2003
Messages
2,884
Age
33
Location
NC
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
@Keisha al'Benn from what Alenya said in response to my similar question, it can absolutely be a place to stay as a senior member even if that's not the main purpose of this change. You won't be forced to join a group or move from being unaffiliated. But, it comes with limitations like not being able to form new bonds or become an invited guest.
 

Morrighan Daghdera

CordaMorri
Gaidin
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Messages
7,739
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
Morri#4073
And to Leese’s question about bonds, you can now keep a prior bond upon re-affiliation within an Ajah/Company. That wasn’t an option for many people and a legit reason why some have stayed in senior membership groups that no longer fit. That you personally have no former bond based on your choice would mean you are ineligible to have one restored eventually. That these changes benefit multiple people is without question. That they don’t specifically meet your unique need is unfortunate; but it doesn’t negate the greater good it does without specifically harming or targeting anyone unfairly.
 

Cassie Dainar

Darth Dainar
The Amyrlin Seat
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,065
Age
43
Location
Arkansas
Just to summarize. You can stay any rank forever, we don't force people to move. But we encourage people to move which is why there are different "perks" with different "ranks" Novices moving to Accepted get to Guest, Accepted moving to Sedai get to bond (same for the other track). But that doesn't mean you can't be an eternal novice or accepted. And there is the option to be a unaffiliated SM and not be actively guesting (though again, it is encouraged). Some of the big reasons behind this are what has been stated before, if someone wants to leave a group that is no longer home, but has a site job that requires SM status that they love, this allows them to keep that. My job doesn't specifically require SM status, but I would never ever demote if it meant giving up my bond to my husband. This would allow people like me the option to demote (No, I'm not demoting).

There is also another benefit to this. One of the hangups we found in the past with forming new groups was the need to have SMs who could lead the group and keep it active. If several unaffiliated SMs couldn't find a new home wanted to form a new group, this would make that easier to achieve. Which, I believe @Leese Sulan would be an option for you without having to first shoehorn yourself into one of the existing groups.
 

Alexstrasz Ruskein

Terrifying
Aes Sedai
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
6,117
Location
Louisville, KY
Pronouns
  1. They - Them
tLC4tzq.gif




I suspect people asking about it are looking for a deeper "why" than simply "because we decided to do it."

thor-sayeth.gif



Ok so this is NOT a place for 'retirement'?

But, it comes with limitations like not being able to form new bonds or become an invited guest.

I expect that when Aes Sedai retired in the books, they didn't continue to bond new Warders, although presumably their old bonds wouldn't be dissolved either. So, if one is looking at this as simply "retirement" instead of "being Stilled," then it seems to fit the bill. So, at least in Keisha's situation I don't see a drawback.
 

Aintza Bisera

Aes Sedai
Tar Valon Times Editor
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
6,436
Age
33
Location
Texarkana, TX
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
Haley#5160
Ok so this is NOT a place for 'retirement'? I had to become a Citizen because I did not want to go through all the Guesting and stuff all over again....but I swear it felt like I had been Stilled!
I was so excited about this new procedure, but now it appears it's not what I thought it was and maybe I don't belong here after all....?

As others have said, you will not be forced to Guest and can stay Unaffiliated as long as you want or forever. It is a way for you to retain your Bond and your rank. If you have any further questions or concerns please let me know.
 

Serinia Edoras

Aes Sedai
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
2,136
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Fantastic discussion, thanks everyone for sharing. The underlying goal to this change is to better support all of our members, especially those that have earned the rank of Senior Member. Like everything else though, we'll keep looking for ways to make improvements and if you have ideas please continue to share them!
 

Keisha al'Benn

Aes Sedai
Moderator
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
11,367
Location
Utah, USA
All right, I am feeling better about this, thank you all for the clarification everyone!
@Leese Sulan I know it's not bonding, but when things get settled in here more you are certainly welcome to hang out with me....I make great cookies! ;)
 

Yenie Antagar

The Ghost of the White Tower
Aes Sedai
Head of the Red Ajah
Joined
Nov 23, 2002
Messages
9,727
Location
UK
Pronouns
  1. They - Them
  2. She - Her
  3. Any - All
Does the unaffiliated Aes Sedai wear black fringe shawls..? :shifty
 

Raeviendha al'Toma

Aes Sedai
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
20,649
Location
Tennessee
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
raevi#1563
I love it because I didn't feel like a junior member. :cheeseeni:
I was uncomfortable.
Now I'm not.
 
Top