Memory of Light Re-Readalong -- Prologue - Ch 2

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    949
    A Memory of Light 16 - So, this chapter was some very awesome building. Remember how in the prologue Talmanes pretty much died fighting 2 fades in one night? Lan here fights 2 at ONE TIME and destroys them. This shows that Lan is the baddest mofo on the planet, channeling or not. This is one of the reasons I think that Lan is a hero of the horn, specifically Gilgamesh (I will cover this when we get to..the horn)

    A Memory of Light 17 - THE SONG! Rand knows the song..and doesn’t sing it anywhere near the Tinkers, I can’t believe his Tav’ereness didn’t like draw a tinker to hear him sing it or something.

    A Memory of Light 18 - So okay, This is the last battle right? Why don’t we see any Bloodknives from Tuon? You would think that would be the time to unleash as many as you could and just let them reak havoc on The Forces of the Shadow. Would certainly have helped take out Channelers and maybe even Damedred or Taim if they cordinate attacks.

    A Memory of Light 19 - Not much to discuss here, we find out that The Seals are fake, but we knew that from Androl and Pevera’s storyline I think.

    A Memory of Light 20 - When the do the series, I really want like..a set of internet shorts about Damedred, especially like if they were to keep his identity secret until he shows up at this point in A memory of light.

    A Memory of Light 21 - Hehe, Androl and Logain are sneaky jerks! We will let you bond anyone..who is still here which is nobody.

    A Memory of Light 22 - Man, I wish Perrin got a chance to have more real fights with Forsaken in the World of Dreams. This bit was awesome. The wolves have great names for the Forsaken, I want to know what they call the rest.

    A Memory of Light 23 - And here we go with the Bloodknife rings. For all of the dumb things that Gawyn did this was not one of them. Egwene was in the center of an enemy army and she is the keystone of the White Tower, every resource possible has to be used. Egwene got caught -with- the Warder Cloak. What Gawyn did here was entirely reasonable for the situation they were in, just like later in the book Aviendha’s incredibly dangerous plan with screwing with a gateways’ weaves was entirely justified, and mind you that could have burned out every channeler within miles of where she was..including Rand.
     
  2. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    9,295
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Chapter 37:
    -I love the image of Logain parting the river for Lan to cross. :lol
    -Elayne thinks her unborn children respond when she Heals. Interesting.
    -Elayne making the damane Heal her by touching her foot. :rofl “Both seemed to take it as an insult. Elayne had certainly intended it as one.”
    -Uno only remembers Mat as he was when he had the dagger and is super confused by him leading the armies now. :lol
    -Demandred’s using a full circle of 72. :blink :blink Well then.
    -Gawyn stacks the Bloodknife rings. Apparently you can use multiple of them to multiply the effect. I wonder if real Bloodknives have ever tried that. Probably not.
    -Pevara is able to send imgaes of places to Androl for him to Travel to. Very convenient.
    -The double-bond Pevara and Androl have gets even crazier when they link in a circle!
    -Pevara not only is able to use the Power while in a circle and not in control, but can actually copy Androl’s Talent. :blink :blink That’s so cool!!
    -Egwene is so natural with the Power that she just automatically knows how to fix the cracks in reality. It just feels right.
    -Ughhh, Siuan almost goes with Bryne, but then pushes and gets Egwene to send her somewhere else. :facepalm :facepalm I really hate this part of this book.
    -Androl says that ‘springwater reminds him of Jain’. So Androl met Jain Farstrider at some point.
    -Graendal uses Compulsion on Rhuarc. :cry :cry
    -One of Rand’s future realities that he creates involves Sharans settling outside of Shara, in the Two Rivers.
    -Birgitte’s finally forgotten everything from her past lives. :(
    -Siuan :cry
    -People in the Age of Legends didn’t figure out that you could put a Gateway in the sky for spying.
    -Demandred was not paying attention to the pictures of Rand, Mat, and Perrin that have been circulating for many books now. He thinks Mat is Rand in disguise. :arch
    -Trapping evil Asha’man in a stedding is super smart! :D
    -Galad learns from Gawyn that he’s Rand’s half-brother… that’s gotta be a surprise for a Whitecloak. :p Luckily, Galad is not a normal Whitecloak.
    -I love Tuons’s confusion that Min doesn’t want to use the name ‘Darbinda’. :lol
    -
    :lol
    -The Ogier with Loial and the Seanchan Gardeners are fighting together… but kinda ignoring each other. I wonder what they think of each other.
    -Even in Mat’s old memories, he doesn’t remember Ogier ever fighting. It’s been that long.
    -When Mat thinks of Rand when he’s outside the Pattern, he just sees blackness.
    -Tinna has some past with the White Tower apparently, though the Companion doesn’t have any more information about it.
    -Androl stealing the Seals from Taim. :joy :joy
    -I wish we’d gotten to see more of Abell Cauthon, but we do see him briefly as proud of his son. :giggle
    -In one of Rand’s visions of the future, the Aiel return to peace and sing again. :) Have they learned the Song?
    -Rand’s vision involves Turning people to the Light. Super creepy.
    -Aravine is sorry for what she did… doesn’t excuse her being evil, but it’s impossible to escape the Dark One once you’re a Darkfriend. You can’t just disobey orders if you want to live. :(
    -
    :cry :cry
    -Bela dies… or does she? :look
    -Annoura burning herself out is heartwrenching… can it be Healed? Or can only Stilling be Healed?
    -Hurin dies. :( :cry
    -I love Egwene giving the message to Egeanin to break the Seals and watch for the light. It’s just so perfect. :) No idea how Egwene knew to watch for the light. She’s just that good, I guess.
    - Mat sees Lan charging in to fight Demandred and wow, I love Tam and the Two Rivers archers saving Lan. Such an amazing scene! :joy :joy With Loial staying nearby to witness for his book. <3 Lan is so good! :joy :joy
     
  3. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    9,945
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Yeah, the final scene in that LONG chapter is just SO great, and SO AWESOME :D I love Lan, so that is of course helping ;)
    I do understand not wanting to break up the part with fighting in Merrilor...

    And yes, :cry Siuan.
    I do believe that the first time I read the part where Rhuarc was captured I shouted angrily at the book :look Rhuarc is one of my favorite characters :cry

    I also think I was quite stunned when Egwene died, but looking at it now, I should have seen it coming. She was just TOO perfect, too much in control, and especially when Gawyn died, she was a goner... But I suck at seeing stuff like that on first read-through. Which is why I like to reread books ;)
     
  4. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    949
    Considering they are meant to try to survive as long as possible and take down as many targets as you can, very likely not. Gawyn was going all in to murder one specific target who was leagues beyond his skill set.

    And if he were this would have caused a very large split in his worldview all on it's own. Rand is his younger brother so it is Galad's (In his mind) Duty to protect his younger sibling.

    Lan is the best, Him charging off to go after Damedred is one of the most well set up things in the entire series.

    A Memory of Light 24 - I love Rodel's idea with the Brambles, I bet the Trollocs in front were really surprised. "Oh it is just a bush I can just hack into it.Oh GOD people are pushing me into them this hurts!"

    A Memory of Light 25 - Rand enters The Pit of Doom and faces Moridin for the last time. I wonder what exactly lead Elan Morin Tedronai to want everything to end.

    A Memory of Light 26 -
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  5. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,354
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    I was wondering something - what happened with Pevara and Androl? Did I miss something? I seem to remember from my first reading that they are gone, but I did not read anything about it during this re-read.... or I was so overwhelmed by other characters and did not remember them? Anyone?
     
  6. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    9,945
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    The last we heard of them they were with Logains group. It was Androl that told Logain about the refugees in trouble.
    I suspect they will keep on living in the Black Tower, maybe split between the White and the Black.
    Who knows, maybe they will even become the bridge between the Black and White Towers...
     
  7. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    949
    It is very likely that they were too tired to be of use. The Stedding trip was because they were too tired to directly fight..and after that was saving the civilians from Trollocs so they had to have been dead on their feet after.
     
  8. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,354
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    yeah, of course their future will be interesting, because of their unusual bond... I dont why I was left with the impression that they died :cheese
     
  9. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    9,295
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Chapter 38:
    -Rand comes to a realization and stops taking responsibility for everything. Also, everyone in Merrilor is now able to fight again with Demandred dead. Tai’shar Malkier! :swordy :horsey

    Chapter 39:
    -Mat is, understandably, super creeped out by the nothingness he sees when he thinks of Rand.
    -Mat assumes that his ‘death’ in Rhuidean unbonded him from the Horn.
    -The Heroes of the Horn would never fight for the Shadow. It’s just a scary rumor. Good. Birgitte fighting for the Shadow would just be weird. :arch
    -Olver and Noal! :joy :joy Such a wonderful scene. :cry :cry
    Chapter 40:
    -The armies of the Light are very smart with Gateways. Firing the dragons from a safe location is very clever.
    -Poor Jur is so confused why Mat asked him to summon a bunch of villagers only for them to die. :lol Again, very smart use of all your resources.

    Chapter 41:
    -Logain literally decides to just ignore the battle to search for Taim’s sa’angreal. :rolleyes I get his motivation and it would certainly help them fight to have it… but :facepalm
    -Moghedien can’t perfectly copy Demandred and one of his followers sees through her disguise immediately.

    Chapter 42:
    -Even though we don’t see her, it’s nice to hear about Talaan again. :) I liked her.
    -Aviendha killing Rhuarc is… brutal. :( Poor Aviendha. (poor Rhuarc, too, but he's already dead by this point)

    Chapter 43:
    -Awww, Mat sends Hawkwing to go say hi to Tuon. And having him say that Mat ‘sent him’ is certainly going to curry favor with Tuon. :p

    Chapter 44:
    -I like Perrin trying to use tel’aran’rhiod physics in the real world. :rofl Reminds me of when I play a game too much and start forgetting that video game mechanics don’t work in real life. :p

    Chapter 45:
    -Gaul is so badass. :D

    Chapter 46:
    -Slayer’s transition to suddenly being terrified of Perrin is a bit sudden, but the chase/fight itself is pretty cool!
    -Perrin sees people from other worlds fighting in the Last Battle, too, as they shift between tel’aran’rhiod and the waking world.
    -The wolf heroes of the horn are awesome! :D I wonder if there are other animals that come back with the horn. What about Ogier?
    -Perrin’s Power-wrought hammer can kill Darkhounds for good. Another reason Power-wrought weapons are awesome.

    Chapter 47:
    -Mat killing Padan Fain with the dagger is kinda cool (especially since he’s apparently partially immune to the dagger’s effects now), though I do wish Fain’s plotline were more developed at the end. He’s very much an afterthought. (though I know there was only so much time in the last book)
    -The seal on the Dark One’s prison is made of saidin, saidar, and True Power. Weaving the prison with the essence of the Dark One himself. :eek
    -And we see how Lews Therin caused saidin to be tainted. The Dark One was able to touch it when Lews Therin and the Companions closed the Bore. But Rand uses a buffer of True Power so that can’t happen again. Saidin and saidar are safe.

    Chapter 48:
    -All the cracks from Balefire and ripping up of the earth actually destroys the plateau so it collapses on itself. :blink :blink Yikes.
    -I totally cried when Logain sees all the people thanking the Asha’man for their work, looking up to them, and promising to send their children to the Black Tower if they have the talent. :joy :joy Such a great end to the book.
    Chapter 49:
    -Lanfear seamlessly uses Compulsion on Perrin and almost just convinces him to help her kill Rand. It’s amazing how close the Last Battle came to such an anticlimactic ending. :p Luckily, Perrin is trained in the Wolf Dream and can hold onto himself.

    Epilogue:
    -Rand sees Nakomi. She encourages him to carry Moridin’s body out of the cave.
    -Aludra’s making her own Illuminators! :joy :joy
    -Moghedien is taken by the Seanchan… even though she’s Moghedien, I just can’t actually be happy about anyone getting taken as damane…
    -How did Alivia know what she would have to do to help Rand? She sets out supplies for him.
    -Rand ‘thinks’ his pipe alight.
    -Such an incredibly satisfying ending. :)
    -Loial wrote his book! :D :D :joy :joy
     
  10. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    949
    A Memory of Light 26 - Oh Tuon and Egwene were so close to getting a chance for lasting peace. Imagine if things had gone a generation with this agreement in place? if the people of Seanchan actually got to see what Aes Sedai were like in person.

    A Memory of Light 27 - Min is now under the Seanchan's skin.
     
  11. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    9,945
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Why do you think the agreement will not happen? Egwene is gone, but Tuon is still alive, and more importantly, so is Mat, who heard it. Not to mention Min...
    I think some part of the agreement at least will still happen...
     
  12. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    949
    Well they got a little distracted before they really got the agreement..agreed to.

    Chapter 28 - Loial finds the song..again with none of The Tinkers around.

    Chapter 29 - When we get to this part in the live action series..I so want the same actor playing Talmanes to play the guy who Mat gets the loyalty of here...just with a giant fake mustache.

    Chapter 30 - "It was something out of legends." Indeed, I wonder what happens with the Black Tower after the series. It seems strange that the Asha'man would have Loyalty to Andor but Logain pretty much states it outright that the Black Tower belongs to Andor, between that and the Kin being based in Andor as well as Andor gaining Cairaihen and Effectively Manatheren as puppet states as well as whatever happens with Faile possibly becoming queen herself,

    Chapter 31 - I love how horrified Egwene is that she trusts Mat, Siuan had him pegged quite well in book 3 though, he is a flaky dope who would prefer to gamble and hit on pretty girls, but when things are dire there is nobody else you want at your side.

    Chapter 32 - A last stand, the final battle between light and shadow

    Cgaoter 33 - Faile here is the reason you don't panic when something bad goes down. You make mistakes like hopping into a portal and going to the absolute worst place in the world. Heck there should have been a plan in place considering the frequency of bubbles of evil going on so that Faile could just bolt toward Tar'Valon if anything went down without having to worry about her followers, also not trusting the band of the hand was a terrible mistake.

    Chapter 34 - And here is the major mis-step with Perrin in this book. He should have killed Slayer here, we don't need -another- fight with Slayer later. Perrin should have had a full out fight with Lanfear. It would bring his plot as "Wolfbrother." to a complete area since Lanfear has always said that The World of Dream was Hers.

    Chapter 35 - I wonder if any of the Aes Sedai asked what the Aiel do with their Men who have the spark. You think someone would have made the connection that they are sending in people who can be turned to the Shadow forcibly.

    Chapter 36 - Preparations begin for the last showdown. Apparently Mat and Leilwin just decide not to talk to each other, of note we see a bunch of characters from before here. Urien was from book 2, and we have the guy from the Cart in book 1, and the Orchard after dragonmount.

    Chapter 37 - Whew, in Audio book form you don't realize how long this chapter is. Is it really from the start of the last battle the whole way til Lan kills Damedred? Holy CRAP.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  13. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    949
    Chapter 37 - So I am gonna cover this in bits, based on viewpoints.

    Elayne - There isn't a whole lot to discuss with Elayne, she spends most of the fight stuck in one place and doesn't get to do much. Getting her ego knocked around a bit was a thing I guess..but it didn't matter since the Horn got Blown before anything too bad happened. It could just be that the major event is "Oh ho look at Mellar, he is so evil..he rapes people." and I just can't care about scenes like that anymore. Also Elayne isn't helped by Briggete here at all..between losing her memories and..Kate Redding's akward voice acting for Briggete's lines when she is called by the horn makes me just want to forget the scene.

    She could have used like..at least one scene of doing actual strategy?

    Logain - Lots going on here, He starts the chapter doing a 40 Person Circle, and Rand gave him the Fatman! It survived the whole way from book 4. He has an interesting Dynamic going here. The paranoia and desire for power certainly seems like it might be something from the taint, however he does have really good reason to have a gigantic show of power. His two Major plots both involved him completely robbed of agency so a desire for power is understandable. Though his assassination attempt on Demedred was incredibly dumb...Scry and Die rarely ever works.

    Gawyn/Galad - I am going to Merge these two guys cause Galad's plot here isn't very long. Gawyn is technically making the right choice here, He knows that the BloodKnife Rings are a death sentence and the The Last Battle has already gone on an indeterminate amount of time. Egwene has noticed that there is already something wrong with him.

    He in classic Wheel of Time fashion however didn't TALK TO ANYONE, which is the cause of 90% of the problems that the Light has in the series. The Fights themselves do a very good job of building Damedred as "A bad Mofo." The Damedred vs Lan fight is incredibly well built. Lan has been shown to be an expert swordsman in the book by fighting two Fades and winning easily, while Damedred takes out the best swordsman in the series.

    Egwene - FLAME OF TAR VALON! Also the whole "Lielwin is a warder." thing was just rather pointless wasn't it? It technically didn't even last a whole chapter.

    Rand - Rand's Visions here bother me a bit. The implications are that The Dark One is the source of all evil, regardless of being sealed or not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  14. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    949
    Lan - And Here we go.

    The actual events here are, frankly the most awesome thing that happens in this entire series. Lan vs Damedred is the only thing that competes with The Pillars of Light in book 4 as my favorite scene in the series.
     
  15. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    9,945
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Yes, I LOVE that scene :D I love it even more because Lan survives. It would have been an EPIC death scene, but this somehow works even better because he survives. Maybe because Lan did not expect to live :)
     
  16. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    949
    So, I been talking about how I think Lan is a Hero of the Horn, and I Know which one he is.

    Al'Lan Mandragoran is Gilgamesh.

    We know that Gilgamesh exists in some form in The Wheel Universe, in Towers of Midnight Rand mentions him

    "Turns out they had a right to be afraid. How I wish I had listened to Gilgame"

    He exists in Lews Therin's Memories and we have seen that there were Other Heroes of The Horn alive during Lews Therin's Time, Brigetta Silverbow had an incarnation during the War of Power, so that means Heroes of the Horn can be alive during important times such as The War of the Power.

    So we know that Gilgamesh exists, and that Heroes of the Horn can be alive during important events such as Tarmon Gaiden. So lets look at the list of Heroes that we know about.


    Most of these names have some sort of connection to real world Mythos and a huge amout of variation of Mythos sources are represented, Eastern Shintoism with Amaresu, Buddish with Shivan The Hunter, heck even American mythology with Hend the Striker, we even include The King Arthur Legends. Heck even outside of the Horn Jordan makes references to legends and Mythos, but there is one that is oddly not very represented.

    Gilgamesh, one of the first pieces of known literature one that has influenced culture and is an early example of the Monomyth, also known as the Hero's Journey, something that shows up in some form in every culture, and the only reference to it is one sentence that Rand doesn't even finish. There is no way Robert Jordan would make a giant check list of Mythical Figures and miss Gilgamesh. That means Gilgamesh has to have a living person right?

    Now, Gilgamesh's Saga had 2 major themes. His Friendship with Endiku, and after Endiku's death The God-King's Obsession with death.

    Endiku is a "Wild Man." who was brought to Gilgamesh to give him a companion. Lan's Companion is Nyneave..a Wilder.

    And of course, Lan's entire plot revolves around him "Knowing he will die." and how his relationship with Nyneave affects how he feels about that death, and we even get a special inversion of how Gilgamesh's story ended.

    In the end, Gilgamesh decided that he would gain immortality by making the city he ruled into something so great it would never fade from history. Lan's existence is so great that nobody can forget Malkier. Think about how the Aiel call him Aan'allein, The man who is Alone, but also The man who is a nation onto himself.

    Finally, there is his incredible sword skills. He fights someone centuries older than he is, the literal second best swordsman in the Age of Legends and wins. Yes he took a very bad blow..but he won. He survived.

    Edit : One last thought, if Lan is Gilgamesh..that means that Lan vs Demedred was Gilgamesh vs Beowulf.
     
  17. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    9,945
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    I like that theory Ryu :) I don't know enough about Gilgamesh to say for sure, but it is certainly a possibility...