Memory of Light Re-Readalong -- Prologue - Ch 2

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,045
    Eh I wouldn't even call what she does saving the day, she pauses the arguments long enough for everyone to get a cool head. Perrin who really saved the entire thing with his Idea about the Aiel being the enforcement.
     
  2. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,217
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Well, yes, but I think the stories told of the meeting will give Moiraine the credit, especially since Perrins suggestion were not given in public.

    Also, I just read the last charge of the Malkieri. It makes me shiver every time :cry The fact that it didn't turn out to become the last charge after all does not change the fact that they went in to die...
     
  3. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    12,592
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ryu – I don’t think Moridin balefiring himself would work. Balefire erases the last few minutes of the pattern, so it wouldn’t just erase Moridin from the pattern, it would erase what he just did, so the balefire would never have existed. My head hurts just thinking about that paradox. :lol :x

    Kassina
    – In Chapter 14, I thought that Androl being able to weave a gateway was because Perrin had moved or deactivated the dreamspike?
    In Chapter 18, I’m actually glad that Rand wasn’t the one to save the Black Tower. They needed to learn how to stand on their own in order to be useful after the Last Battle. If their entire existence was dependent on Rand, they would flounder after he’s gone. This way they are a powerful, independent force, much like the White Tower.

    Other random thoughts:
    - I really love seeing Gaul in the Wolf Dream. He does such a great job of adapting there.
    - The bonding together of the Borderlanders makes me teary … such inspiration and dedication!
    - Androl and Pevara are fabulous together. They are some of my most favorite character in the entire series. I wish we had more time with them.
     
  4. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    10,536
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I may have to go back and re-read that part, but I was under the impression that the first super tiny gateway he weaves is while the dreamspike is still there (which is why he's only just able to weave a super tiny one after a lot of effort despite his Talent and the fact that they'd been neglecting giving him forkroot), but then shortly after that, Perrin removes the dreamspike and he's able to just normally weave gateways without all the effort.

    Earlier, when the dreamspike is definitely there, he tried gateways and, at least once, he feels like he's almost able to break through and make one (despite the dreamspike), but he's interrupted right when he feels like he might make it. I interpreted that first gateway he made as him finally being able to break through and make a super tiny gateway despite the dreamspike.
     
  5. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    12,592
    Location:
    Maryland
    Hmm, interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way. I'd be interested to see what everyone else thinks too! I don't have a copy of the book handy (I've been doing the audio version) so it isn't easy for me to go back and look it up. I'm going to check out the Library now to see if is has any insight. :)
     
  6. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    12,592
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ok, here's what I found on Androl's page:

     
  7. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    10,536
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Ohh, interesting, so does Perrin removing it from the ground reduce its strength then?
     
  8. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    12,592
    Location:
    Maryland
    Honestly I'm not quite sure. :scratch I'd have to go back and reread the Perrin section.

    Now is when a visual timeline of events would be super helpful - we could see exactly what Perrin was doing at the time when Androl's tiny gateway worked. :p
     
  9. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,217
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    Yeah, that is how i see it too. The first gateway was when Perrin first found the dreamspike and managed to reduce the size or strenght of it or something, then he takes it away completely and he manages to make loads of them, and be the total badass he can be ^^

    While I enjoy reading about Androl and Pevara, there are so many other characters that we needed to follow... I thought at first that Androl was a complete Sanderson make-up, but then I found that the first chapter about him was in KoD, so there went that theory :p
     
  10. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    10,536
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Chapter 23:
    -And Gawyn’s using a Bloodknife ring. :desk
    -Egeanin! :joy
    -Gawyn casually kills half a dozen Sharans. :lol I realize the Bloodknife rings are useful and save Egwene’s life here… but Gawyn just annoys me. :p
    -There’s a ‘solid blackness’ in the sky, an eclipse. (I guess they don’t usually have eclipses?)
    -The holes in the Pattern are spreading with the continued use of Balefire…
    -Sarene says there’s a clear difference between Dreadlords and the Black Ajah. What is it?
    -Rand leaves bloody footprints (that has to be A LOT of blood, though, for his blood to soak through his boot that much!), fulfilling that part of the prophecy. :) See, Rand? You don’t have to die.

    Chapter 24:
    -In Seanchan, the husband of the empress is supposed to be a rival that could be a threat to her life. Tuon doesn’t know how to react to the fact that Mat doesn’t want to kill her. :lol
    -Tuon renames Mat Knotai and immediately starts thinking of him as ‘Knotai’ instead of ‘Matrim’.
    -Tuon tells Mat that the Empress ‘cannot be constrained by words on a paper.” and that she’s not going to be constrained just because she gave her word. That’s not really an attitude that’s going to encourage other nations to want to work with you. (granted, they’re more about conquest than working with other nations anyway, so that’s probably just fine by them)
    -I love the Borderlander solidarity, united behind the banner of Malkier. :joy
    -The clouds are parting around Elayne, too, due to her bon with Rand. That’s really interesting that the bond can work that way
    -The Sea Folk prophecies speak of The Bringer of Gales. It’s important that the Sea Folk are there for the Last Battle, since the prophecies we know don’t mention anything about it and, without them and the Bowl of Winds, no one would even know to expect it, let alone be able to counter it!
    -The Sea Folk are really interested in the steamwagons from Cairhien. They want to make steam ships! :D

    Chapter 25:
    -The husk of Shaidar Haran is sitting in front of the blackness in Shayol Ghul. The Dark One emerging from its body to manifest more physically in the world.
    -The mistakes the Great Captains make are so subtle that people notice them, but aren’t quite certain what to do with them.
    -In Tel’aran’rhiod, Perrin can actually see glimpses of the battle. The barriers between the two worlds are fading. Usually, it’s impossible to see awake people in Tel’aran’rhiod.
    -Slayer is trying to kill Rand in Tel’aran’rhiod. I guess since the two places are overlapping so much there (enough that Perrin can talk to Nynaeve), killing him in either world is sufficient.
    -Gaul is impressive at adjusting to Tel’aran’rhiod! :D Go Gaul!
    -Perrin sees Aelfinn in Tel’aran’rhiod. Can Aelfinn and Eelfinn always enter Tel’aran’rhiod? Or is it just because of the barriers weakening? And why are they fighting in the Last Battle? There’s no indication that they’re Shadowspawn or fight for the Shadow… so are they fighting for the Light in their own way? :scratch Or are they just hanging around the battle to feed on emotions?
    -Gaul fighting the red veiled Aiel. :cry The Aiel who were sent to spit in Sightblinder’s eye were Turned to the Shadow. :(
    -Perrin thinks at one point that the Perrin of months ago could never have just stood by while Gaul killed the Aiel… but a few months ago, Perrin was chopping off an Aiel man’s hand to get information. :arch I don’t think the Perrin of a few months ago is as pure and innocent as you think.

    Chapter 26:
    -Egwene and Tuon are actually able to come to an agreement. Egwene saves the Sea Folk islands and promises to tell everyone that they can become damane if they want to. :arch Tuon really does believe that some will see the ‘truth’ and want to become damane.
    -After Mat annoying Egwene by talking about rescuing her when she doesn’t need rescuing, Egwene considers how she can ‘rescue’ Mat from the Seanchan, not realizing he doesn’t need rescuing.
    -Egwene expects that Egeanin would want to come with her to see Tuon, not realizing that that’s the last thing Egeanin would want.
    -“Lord Tam al’Thor” just sounds weird.
    -And people are finally realizing what’s happening with the Great Captains and being decisive!
    -Elayne is able to take control of the battle immediately after relieving Bashere. She‘s received lots of training and has a really good idea of battle tactics. She immediately starts giving good orders and turns the fight around.

    Chapter 27:
    -Mat’s just weaving Old Tongue stuff into normal conversations now. “The enemy’s flag has fallen”. “Say the name of Darkness and his eye is upon you.”
    -Min sees “a dagger rammed through the heart of a raven” above Galgan, though luckily Min knows it’s not about Mat. :lol
    -Min speculates about Tuon’s pants being either divided skirts or pants… what’s the difference? :scratch
    -Tuon suddenly becomes crazy obsessed with Min. :lol Makes sense. The Seanchan are all about omens and Min’s viewings are the same types of omens. It’s all some sort of lost knowledge that only manifests now in specific Talents. She is also her Truthspeaker! :D Giving Min lots of power to work with Mat to change the Seanchan for the better.

    Chapter 28:
    -Lan is persistent in suspecting Agelmar, despite how ludicrous the accusation seems. It all just seems like little mistakes, rather than outright sabotage, so people think he’s just tired.
    -Loial sings a song of growing while fighting and actually starts growing grass an plants around him, even on the Trolloc weapons! :D That’s so cool. All Ogier should be doing this!

    Chapter 29:
    *-The Myrddraal are disguising themselves are Trollocs. :lol Undercover Myrddraal.
    -Egwene notices Gawyn’s pale, as if sick. :(
    -The Great Captains are able to see what they’re doing, but Graendal’s influence is forcing them to give bad advice and look for rationalizations (even lies) to explain mistakes and bad ideas away.
    -Queen Tenobia is killed by Agelmar’s terrible plan. Was he actively trying to kill Tenobia? Why would the Shadow want Tenobia dead? :arch
    -And down in Arafel, Bryne ordered the Seanchan to help out when called, but then never called them. So Mat saves the day! :swordy :swordy
    -Mat wins over all the Seanchan generals with how awesome he is and accidentally raises an officer who may have turned against Tuon to the Blood. Hurray for ta’veren! :lol
    -I like Mat’s matter-of-fact “Huh. Gareth Bryne is a Darkfriend.”
     
  11. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,217
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    I find that I notice the small stuff much better now that I listen to the books instead of reading them... Because now I have to listen to the whole paragraph of description or exposition instead of just fast forward to the dialogue :look

    Also, I love how Ituralde uses thorn bushes as a barrier for the Trollocs :clap There is a reason these people are called Great Captains :) The fact that their minds are scrambled later on is not their fault :look

    Though of course, if Mat had been at Merrilor, where he should have been, he would most likely have ended up being in charge earlier... But then, he might not have gotten into the Seanchan as well... Hmm, decisions, decisions..
     
  12. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai Outreach Activities Coordinator Historian

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,117
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    AAAAH I am starting AMoL today I will not be able to catch up D:

    nevermind, i will probably listen to like 10 chapters tomorrow only :look
     
  13. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,217
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    How far along are we supposed to be by now? Because I just started the MASSIVE chapter 37 :look
     
  14. Wil Cambrae

    Wil Cambrae Sparkle Chief Gaidin

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,367
    Location:
    Chuckville, IL

    Also, I finally figured out why the battle Elayne fought near Cairhien felt so familiar. The first trolloc army was defeated using the same strategies that Hannibal used in the Battle of Cannae :look
    Weird, eh? If I knew battles better I know many of the battles in this book were based on real battles fought.
     
  15. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,217
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    You mean Hannibal sprouted lava out of the ground to help him win? :p
     
  16. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    10,536
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Is the date when we're starting reading or when we're finishing reading the chapters? Is this week the Last Battle chapter or is that next week?
     
  17. Wil Cambrae

    Wil Cambrae Sparkle Chief Gaidin

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,367
    Location:
    Chuckville, IL

    Of course, but instead of lava he used Ceasar dressing *nodnods*
     
  18. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    15,217
    Location:
    Drøbak, Norway
    I just heard the part where Elayne fight the Draghkar. The idea with being deaf is brilliant. :)
    I especially like how she uses the Seanchan sul'dam though... "Maybe she took it as an insult. Elayne had certainly intended it as one" And then later, "Maybe Elayne had managed to insult her again. Good" :rofl I am not always a fan of Elayne, but when she gets to be her sarcastic self, she is marvellous :D
     
  19. Ilverin Matriam

    Ilverin Matriam Aes Sedai Outreach Activities Coordinator Historian

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,117
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    Finished Chapter 6 just now.... Moiraine is awesome, I know she is missing from half the books, but I just love her so much!


    EDIT: I must say Chapter 17 is my favorite by far :lol

    EDIT again: After listening to Chapter 17... I dont think Rand did a very good job negotiating with Tuon... for the past few books people have been saying that they can destroy the Seanchan empire with the secret that sul'dam can be taught to channel and I honestly thought Rand would do that... also he barely fought for the already captured damane, he could just ASK for them to be freed, Tuon had NO RIGHT to take them from HIS lands... anyway... the whole Seanchan business is a sore spot for me, I hated them for so long and Rand had the opportunity to take them down and he didn't... I don't know, maybe there will be something in the following chapters that will lift my spirit a little bit :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  20. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    10,536
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Chapter 30:
    -Elyas! :D I love that he gets to have a real role in the Last Battle. The wolves are attacking the evil Aiel before they reach Thakan’dar.
    -Awww, Arganda misses Gallenne and is wearing his plume. :(
    -So many very satisfying moments in this book. Like when the Asha’man arrive to save Elayne’s army. :) I love that they support Andor since that’s where they’re based.
    -And man, using gateways to bring in lava is quite an idea. As long as you don’t care about preserving the countryside.

    Chapter 31:
    579-Egwene worries that Min had previously made and broken Seanchan oaths. I wonder if they would care. On the one hand, they’re super serious about their oaths, but on the other, Min’s now super important.
    -Ituralde is noticing what’s happening with his head. He’s off-balance and self-aware enough after his recent battles that he can see what’s happening and stop it sometimes.
    -The hidden battle the Windfinders are fighting for control of the weather is so cool. :D
    -The Myrddraal attack is super scary.
    -Graendal’s Compulsion forces them to misremember what they did in order for what they’re doing to make sense. It doesn’t just make them make bad decisions, but allows them to remember things that didn’t happen.

    Chapter 32:
    -Mat admits to himself that Tuon can channel, but hasn’t let herself learn yet. I really wish we could’ve seen the outrigger novels that dealt with the Seanchan. :( It would’ve been really cool to see how their society evolves with the new knowledge about sul’dam.
    -Sharan damane are very fast to adjust to their new life. They’re used to being very restricted in Shara.
    -Even as Mat makes the other Seanchan generals refer to Aes Sedai as Aes Sedai, rather than marath’damane, he calls the Sharan channelers as ‘marath’damane’.
    -Since the Seanchan are all about omens, Tuon wants to know what Min sees more than she wants to know how Min interprets it (even if Min’s interpretations are always accurate).
    -Tuon’s idea to have the about-to-marry guy go to the front lines makes sense since they’d basically have an immortal fighter :p but he could also just get married covertly (despite the empress telling him not to) or something and die. :cheese
    -Mat speculates about Seanchan armor and thinks that female armor should ‘emphasize certain areas’. :rolleyes Really, Mat? :facepalm
    -Min takes control and forbids Tuon from using her power to kill people! :D Go Min!
    -They grabbed the Amyrlin Seat from the Tower for the meeting with Tuon. :lol Makes sense since, you know, Seanchan.
    -They’re using gateways like telephones. :rofl
    -So… there used to be lava all over the battlefield and now people are fighting on it?? :arch Are they using the non-lava parts of the battlefield I guess??
    -Galad considers basing the Whitecloaks in the Two Rivers… umm, no. Just no. :|

    Chapter 33:
    -Faile’s storyline comes full circle. She started searching for the Horn and ended up being in charge of carrying it to the Last Battle.
    -Faile had originally not wanted Olver in the caravan. Good for the world that she was persuaded to allow it!
    -Faile’s already plotting how to argue with Perrin after she’s done. :facepalm
    -Now that the Great Captains are out of the picture, Graendal’s trying to influence Darlin, the new head of the battlefield.
    -Sorilea, learning of the evil Aiel, says that the Aiel will have great toh for sending male channelers to be Turned.

    Chapter 34:
    -Perrin goes to somewhere very very far distant in tel’aran’rhiod (Shara??) and the wolves there don’t know any humans who can talk to them.
    -The evil Aiel don’t keep to ji’e’toh.
    -Apparently it’s possible for someone to lead a circle without using their own Power. I thought you had to embrace the Power to accept others into the circle. :scratch

    Chapter 35:
    -Olver plans to be trained by the Aiel, then talk to the Snakes and Fox in order to find the Aiel who killed his parents. :( It is a clever plan, at least. (though, before the Aiel left the Waste, it wouldn’t really work to just go up to AIel and ask to be trained)
    -Ugh… Vanin and Harnan getting mistaken for thieves. :facepalm So frustrating. D:
    -Faile briefly considers blowing the Horn of Valere, but doesn’t because she doesn’t think it’ll do anything. Would’ve been interesting if she just blew it without thinking!

    Chapter 36:
    -Moridin and Rand are frozen during Rand’s battle with the Dark One. I wonder if Moridin is seeing anything of what’s happening.
    -Stabbing Alanna to distract Rand was a really good idea.