Membership Manual Change: Age Requirements Revised

[Jahily al'Karee]

Putting an age limit on our membership relieves our admin team of a lot of legal culpability, frees them up to make community rules that make sense for who we actually are, and frees us up to relax and actually behave like adults. All of those are good things.

Thank you for putting in the time to give your perspective Jaryd, and I hope you don’t mind the quote. But this is one of many good points.

As a parent and a volunteer with youth-based organizations, I am very happy to see the 18+ measure put into place.

 

[Katherine Avery]

As the mother of an 18-year-old, I would like to present a different perspective. There are a lot of adults here, who are arguing the right for minors to be included in this fandom space. That thinking of being 16 or 17 and longing to be seen as an adult and longing to go into adult only spaces was very unique to the millennials. And while not being a Gen Z’er myself, I am in constant contact and have been observing this group of young adults grow, and the prevailing opinion among them Is they are OK to wait for adulthood. They want to enjoy their childhood, they are coming from a place where three years was stolen from them, and they are taking that three years back , they are not in a hurry to be perceived as adults or take on adult responsibilities. My child is currently at college planning on going trick-or-treating in costume with their friends and then coming back to have dinner and a movie, their older roommate is more excited about trick or treating than going out to a club.
I think that the adults on this site who are fighting so hard for minors to be included in this fandom space are not actually looking at what this group of kids want, and they do not want to be in adult spaces, they do not want the ancient technology of forums, and the interaction with people who are their parents ages.
So yes we can back and forth about this issue, but in reality it’s not an issue. Teenagers and pre-teens are not flocking to our forums to interact with us because of the show. We will grow our membership more and have better community engagement because of this change, not in spite of it.

 

[Raeviendha al'Toma]

I work in education, and have for 25 years. The last thing kids want to do is hang out with adults, and Katherine's comments about the ancient technology also seems to be true. These kids use stuff I've never heard of. *waves cane*

 

[Idine Espanyas]

Those are good points. Aren’t all the youngins on this… TokTik? No wait, TikTok thing these days? *feels old*

 

[Nadezhda al'Lanahrin]

I would like to note that I always preferred talking to adults rather than my peers when I was a kid. I wasn’t a normal kid, of course, but I also wasn’t the only one who felt alienated by their generation.

 

[Alenya Al'Roran]

My child joined the site at 13 and is now 15. She's barely posted because she doesn't really likes forums, but it's my responsibility as her parent to decide if she can be here or not, and I did give my permission. It was a 2 minute conversation with the Amyrlin and I appreciate the Tower is doing what they can to protect themselves and my family. As a parent, I'm fine with this change. As someone affected by it, my kid is good with it, too.

 

[Polegnyn Nemeara]

I've been moderating a Discord server with over 3,000 members since very early 2018. It's part of a server that is far more contentious , and has a far wider age demographic, than Wheel of Time ever has been or ever will be. It isn't a "discoverable" Discord community, which means people only get in by way of finding or being given a direct link, and our fandom is "dead." Most importantly for this conversation...we're an 18+ community and always have been.

Minors join our community all the damn time. They sit in our foyer, they read our rules, they say "whoops I'm not 18, sorry," and they leave. We get a handful of people each month who come in and say something along the lines of "I just turned 18, I can finally join!" None of them are resentful for having to wait. The community is now six years old and the longest anyone has waited to join it is four years. They were delighted to join on their birthday, and we were delighted to welcome them.

We allow adult conversations, including swear words and sensitive topics. We allow sharing of explicit content in specific areas. Our emoji collection includes artistic renditions of peens. One of our bot triggers pops up the "aliens" guy except he's drawn to look like a character from our show and he's saying "dicks." Despite this, that server is the only fandom space I regularly participate in that I feel comfortable opening in public, because our rules about what goes where are specific, consistent, and thus respected by our membership base.

Modding that server is the easiest fandom "job" I have ever had—and I've been modding or administrating fandom communities and chat servers for twenty five years.

Thank you for this. This is reassuring

I would like to note that I always preferred talking to adults rather than my peers when I was a kid.

+1

20+ years involved in some form of Marketing has taught the slippery slope that is marketing toward teenagers, but that is a possibility so there are more than just the few exceptions who have been grandfathered in. This would provide more people their own age to interact with if preferred while feeling less conscious of their age. Seems most of the sci fi/fantasy genre is marketed toward the teenage CIS Caucasian male (one only has to look at who is always “The Hero”) anyway so marketing can be done tactfully. Not saying we should specifically market toward the teenage CIS Caucasian male but just using that as an example.

But, yes, something would still have to be put in place and enforced to keep everyone safer from predators regardless of age and the point of this entire thread.

 

[Alexstrasz Ruskein]

that is a possibility

regardless of ... the point of this entire thread.

Spoiler

 

[Polegnyn Nemeara]

Spoiler

Perhaps someday my actions will prove my sincerity.

 

[Alexr al'Petros]

Perhaps someday my actions will prove my sincerity.

They already have in abundance. Your passion and concern for our community is evident even in this discussion.

 

[Yenie Antagar]

I get that people are concerned by inclusivity but seriously I 100% support this change for legal and moral reasons. None of you complaining about the change are the ones that have to represent the community if there ever was a serious problem. And we're not talking about just having responsibly over American youths, we're an international community. In today's internet climate and with the awareness we have already that is limited how much we can do to protect people on this site? I'd so not want to be in charge of that when it comes to minors as well, you couldn't even pay me to be in charge of that and I don't think it's fair to expect anyone in a voluntary job to take that on.
If someone against all odds sneaks in here despite it then so be it but to expect people to put themselves responsible for some random kid in Germany when they're in the US etc? No, I don't think that's fair and I'm surprised this change didn't happen like a decade ago.

 

[Seryse ni Cousland]

Perhaps someday my actions will prove my sincerity.

I'd like to 💯 this as someone who's actually a victim of this. Of course, those who have experienced similar or same may disagree with me, which is valid and fine. Not here to police anyone but more to agree: I think it's possible to disagree, even on personal subjects, without being... whatever the hell that gif was. Not to stir the pot.

Nem is an upstanding member of this community who contributes an immense amount of time and energy to education and advocacy. I'll go to bat for her any day, even with my own experience and mixed feelings on the subject.

 

[Morgana Arakos]

+1. People are allowed to have different opinions. It's not cool to assume someone's acting in bad faith just because you disagree.

 

[Yenie Antagar]

Also didn't mean this against Nem at all, just wanted to put my thoughts on this as well as I feel they differ a bit

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

I'm gonna put my White logic hat on here for a second.

For me, it boils down to a sort of pros and cons list.

On one hand, we have the stance to let minors join. That exposes them to an adult culture. Older members need to censor themselves and might feel uncomfortable because of it. Minors might find safe refuge here when they don't have a good support structure elsewhere. Maintaining "kid-friendly" areas of the site might make us more seem welcoming. They could also get exposed to inappropriate behavior, adult content, and potentially grooming.

On the other hand, we have the stance to make the site 18+. That might turn away a small number of minors who would wish to join. It would turn away new potential membership. It would allow adult members to engage in age-appropriate conversation and lessen their need to censor themselves. It would absolve the site's administration from any potential harm to minors due to being a member here, legally speaking. It would make the more adult member base more comfortable in general. It would protect minors from being exposed to a more adult community and the dangers that might bring with it.

In my mind, these things are not equal. The downsides are not equal. The downside of making the site 18+ is that we might have to turn away a few people who are underage. The downside of letting minors join is a potential legal mess and could create traumatizing situations for the minors involved.

If even ONE minor were to come to harm because they were allowed onto the site and were then essentially stalked or groomed because of it, does that make it worth it?

It sure doesn't to me. I'd rather protect minors than fight for minors to have a place that MIGHT help them find a sense of community.

 

[Nadezhda al'Lanahrin]

Spoiler

I must say it is getting odious and tiresome with people continually taking sincerity for granted.

 

[Alexstrasz Ruskein]

Let's try this again.

that is a possibility

Sure.

regardless of ... the point of this entire thread.

That point being... we've already said we're not going to. This is an "fyi" thread, not a "brainstorm options" thread.

Perhaps someday my actions will prove my sincerity.

No one doubts your sincerity. But, no matter how much you beat this dead horse, it won't be coming back to life.

 

[Morgana Arakos]

Conversely, given that this decision has already been made, I don't see any harm in people sharing their thoughts.

 

[Ananke Ruadh]

Conversely, given that this decision has already been made, I don't see any harm in people sharing their thoughts.

+1.
And an additional +1 to whomever said that this should have initially been posted in Community Feedback due to the conversation surrounding it.

 

[Aintza Bisera]

I love this change!

As someone who lived through the Wild West here at 17-18 and received some shady attention, I appreciate that future people won't be experiencing similar things (hopefully)!