How will the LB go next time?

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by AnAnonymousWOTFan, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. AnAnonymousWOTFan

    AnAnonymousWOTFan

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    Presumably, the DO can learn from his experiences. Next time around, assuming there IS a next time, why doesn't he just deny the Forsaken any of the TP? That way, saidin and saidar will have to be tainted while the Bore is closed and the world will likely be destroyed.

    Relying on a power the DO has nigh-absolute control over does not seem like a reliable, works-every-time option.
     
  2. Owin al'Kef

    Owin al'Kef

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    You can't forget that the True Power is the entire reason that the Bore existed in the first place. If the DO never offers the TP to the Forsaken, why would any channelers voluntarily switch over to the Dark Side?
     
  3. AnAnonymousWOTFan

    AnAnonymousWOTFan

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    For the same reason they switched over this time. Consider that the majority of the Forsaken never got any access to the TP anyway. They still would want power, and presumably, since Rand allowed the DO to affect the world and allowed evil, the DO and further the TP could still be sensed through the Pattern. In this way, Lanfear could drill the Bore without knowing for sure what it was, releasing the DO. This time around, though, he would know not to give it to any of them, or at least not in the quantities that allowed Rand to pull on it so hard through Moridin. I men, if they were all as weak in the TP as Demandred or Graendal was, the TP would not be a threat to the DO. Thus, next time around, the Bore cannot be sealed the same way, and I don't know of any other way it can be done. The Light is kind of screwed.
     
  4. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran A real gaydin Aes Sedai

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    Unless you accept the theory that the last battle is actually some sort of pattern-equalizing force or event that needs to be repeated every so often, in which case, the game is rigged. If the Creator created the DO as well as the pattern, then there's got to be some sort of greater purpose. It's entirely possible that the DO *cannot* break free and the dragon *cannot* destroy the DO. It's a perpetual stalemate, with one side sometimes gaining a temporary advantage over the other every so often.

    Hmm, kind of bleak and deterministic when I put it that way. Also, that's probably way too speculative and outside the scope of any cannon.
     
  5. AnAnonymousWOTFan

    AnAnonymousWOTFan

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    But that's, again, assuming that Rand and the DO don't have free will, which is entirely contrary to the whole point of Jordan's books.
     
  6. MuKen

    MuKen

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    My interpretation is that since the DO is not part of the pattern he does not experience time the way we do. I don't recall the exact page, but Rand basically admits that the way he is experiencing that whole space outside the pattern is an interpretation his mind puts on it because he's not an out-of-time entity like the DO.

    For Rand to interact with him, Rand's mind had to interpret what was going on within the context of being Rand, but from the DO's perspective the Wheel is one wheel and he is interacting with one point on it (the Last Battle). He doesn't see "Rand", he sees and fights "The Dragon" a single soul that is present at that point of the wheel in every turning. He made a metaphysical attempt to break it that affected all of the incarnations of the Dragon who are currently doing the Last Battle, and each of those Dragons saw that same attempt in the context of their own age. Rand the Dragon saw himself and the DO showing each other what-if worlds in Rand's time. In the next turning Bob the Dragon will see those worlds from the context of Bob's time, but he is seeing the same battle Rand did, his mind is just interpreting it differently.

    But from the DO's perspective, he made one attempt on the Wheel and the Dragon beat him off. There is no "next time" that he can do something differently in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  7. Eluial Aldaran

    Eluial Aldaran A real gaydin Aes Sedai

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    Wow. I never thought of it that way, and I really like that. I think I need some time to chew on it... but yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It explains the cyclic nature of the world, and how every time the (so-called) second age comes around, the bore's seal is good as new, and has been for so long that everyone has forgotten about the DO. It makes a lot more sense than an actual repeating battle (even though to people like integrated-Rand and Elan it does seem that way).

    Also, laughed at Bob the Dragon. Hah!
     
  8. AnAnonymousWOTFan

    AnAnonymousWOTFan

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    But how do you know that time for the DO is not linear? He refers to Rand as "adversary", and the DO referred to Rand as "my old adversary" in LoC. This indicates that the DO experiences time in a linear fashion, rather than a rose-petal type event.
     
  9. MuKen

    MuKen

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    Short answer is that the DO does not experience time at all in his natural state. He only experiences time in the places where he touches the Pattern which is for a fixed period. The wheel then spins out those experiences in countless variations. The moment he got sealed out by Rand, he stopped experiencing time.

    More thorough writeup here:

    http://www.tarvalon.net/showthread....ng-The-Nature-of-the-Pattern-and-the-Dark-One