Just thought I'd bring this thread from the old forums, because I thought it was interesting. You can find the full thread here, though I'm not sure for how long. So if you want any more back messeges, you should go see them now I wasn't. I simply said that it wasn't he who decided that the souls would stay in TAR. I believe that was just a... side effect of the creation of TAR. That's the thing, I believe it was. TAR is a world of dreams, and those who dream are men. In TGH we learn that the mirror worlds are worlds that could have been, meaning all possible threading of the pattern. I think we both agree that the pattern was made by the creator. But note that TAR isn't, in fact, part of those worlds. It's something else, something made by those creatures who dream. Is that so? Let us read that passage together. TSR, 28:462: From brigitte's description we can learn that there is a difference between the land of the Aelfin and Eelfin in TAR and their world in the real world. It's not the same. It can't be the same. Think about it - when in TAR, you're not there in your body. That's the only place we know of that happens. So only your mind enters another world, which is real? That's impossible. Or is there a TAR version of the Aelfin and Eelfin world? In which case it's not a different world, just another part of TAR. Do you understand the problem of traveling to different worlds from TAR? You don't have a real body there, only your mind, and that is something we haven't seen anywhere other then TAR. Unlike his name "Lord of the Grave", we actually know that the DO can't, in fact, take any soul he wants when a person dies. Otherwise no one would ever have been reborn. The DO would simply take all souls when they die and that's it. I see no reason to assume that the heroes of the horn will have reason to fear him after death. Not only that, but we know that the DO infact used them before - Ishamael used Arthur Halkwing the last time and turned him against the Aes Sedai. Also, while we know the heroes of the horn have legends, who said that all of their adventures were connected to the DO at all? There are other adventures out there, you know. Enterwined with him? What does that mean? I was under the impression that in those areas he effects the world more, not that they are in any way interwined with him... Not even sure what that means. Not necesserily. If TAR is indeed a world of men, I doubt the DO can get there, seeing as he's not a man and probably doesn't dream. He doesn't really have a corporeal form, so he can't travel there with a body. If you ask me, the reason the DO can't get to TAR is as simple as those two lines I just wrote. Which means the reason you can't travel to the blight or SG at all in TAR is for a different reason all together, not connected to the DO not being able to go there. Agreed on that. I just disagree on you reasoning. I see no reason the heroes would need to hide. Nor have I ever heared anyone have any control over his own soul or thread in such a way that he decides it should be hidden after his death. And if the creator wanted them there, why not protect ALL people there? After all, while the heroes are reborn into lives of greatness, EVERYONE is reborn to normal lives. That's the meaning of the wheel. That's an interesting theory. I like that... Though it doesn't disprove any of what I wrote. We know there was an explosion, because the Sharom exploded in midair. What was the exact nature is irrelevant to my theory. It doesn't matter if it was a strike by the DO or just a natural accurence. BTW, if you read my previouse post, you'd see that we actually agree on this point. I believe the explosion was done by the DO as well, from his side, thus explaining the flaps of TAR entering the real world. My theory is basically based on the idea that the pattern is thinner where the bore was made, and in TAR as well (if it's part of the pattern at all, or some alternate pattern parellel the real one). That thinnest place isn't, in fact, where the Sharom was, but where the blight now are. Because the pattern is weakest there, that's where the DO can easily influence the world. It was said byu someone above, that the bore isn't really in any specific place. So why can the DO effect those parts? Because that's where the pattern is thinnest. IF my theory that the pattern is even thinner in TAR (based on the changing nature of objects), it makes since that's where they'd want to bore the hole, because that would be easiest. Because we know things in TAR CAN effect the real world. We know injuries that happen there might effect reality. We know Aes Sedai can, at times, lose their ability to channel because of things happening there. We know that the border between TAR and the real world isn't always clear. Again, I'm not sure if they actualy made the bore there, or used TAR's thinner pattern to bore a hole in the real world. That's because I don't know enouigh about the physics of the connection between TAR and the real world. But we know for sure things that happen there CAN effect the real world, in some cases. Hence the hole in TAR, a place you cannot go, because there is a hole there. No, that's not the sort of explosion I'm thinking of. I'm thinking more of a power thing, like when he covered Saidin with the taint. We know SOMETHING explodedout of the bore, because the Sharom exploded in midair the moment the bore was made. I am ofcourse not talking about a physical explosion. No. The Great White Book is quite clear that Shayul Ghul existed BEFORE the breaking of the world, and it was located where once a tropical island was, used for vacations. The Sharom, on the other hand, was floating over an academy or city of some sort. I dunno, while they don't say the city isn't on a tropical island used for vacations, it just doesn't really sound as if they were in the same place. My gut tells me we're talking about two different places, which means the bore was made from the Sharom, but in a different part of the world. That makes sense in TAR... Now that I think about it, we know Lanfear survived the explosion of the Sharom, while others did not... I now believe more then ever that she was in TAR, in the flesh, while others were there in mind only. It was perhaps needed to make a connection between TAR and the real world that can effect the real world through TAR. I don't know the details, but it makes sense.