Dagger Mat

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

Everyone seems to get on Matt's cases about grabbing the Dagger from Shadar Logoth. (Yeah I did too until I really thought about it)
Matt had no choice in the matter, his very Ta'veren nature forced it on him. The pattern itself forced Mat to grab the Dagger when Mordeth started to get passed at them.
When they all ran, Matt just "happened" to still have the Dagger.
If he didn't then we'd have lost the Matt whom we all love.

Think of all the things that happened to Matt and shaped who he was BECAUSE he had the Dagger.

 

[Anika Forsyn]

Ive actually been listening to a reread podcast and they just did this part. I agree that it got him to where he needed to be but I also was sad at the way he treated his friends and never addressed it after the healing.

The same could also be said about

Spoiler

Perrin killing the white cloaks after they kill Hopper and it sends him into the wolf rage

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

I think that's because his friends understood that it wasn't really Matt being a dick, it was Mordeth.

 

[Yersinia al'Mycel]

I totally agree, and I also think that it would be fair to say there is an element of "kids are dumb" as well. I believe the EF boys are about 20 years old in EOTW. We know now that human brains don't mature until age 25. Combine that with "you just left your village for literally the first time ever and you're experiencing a barrage of entirely new and terrifying things" and it's not shocking that Mat made a questionable choice in keeping the dagger, ta'veren-ness aside. Young people make silly choices all the time, even when not being thrown head-first into totally bananas, life-threatening situations. So I don't hold it against him that he kept ahold of the dagger in the midst of his flight from mortal peril.

The same is true for Mat never really making amends for his treatment of his friends after. I don't think they hold it against him, because they know it wasn't really Mat acting like that. But Mat might not really understand or remember what happened, and even if he did, he might not have the emotional maturity needed to make those amends. Plus, they sort of just bounce from crisis to crisis for the next few years, so there isn't a ton of time or emotional bandwidth for deep emotional introspection. I don't know a lot of 20 year olds who would be able to confront their actions in this kind of circumstance.

 

[Gregorin da’Caar]

Everyone seems to get on Matt's cases about grabbing the Dagger from Shadar Logoth. (Yeah I did too until I really thought about it)
Matt had no choice in the matter, his very Ta'veren nature forced it on him. The pattern itself forced Mat to grab the Dagger when Mordeth started to get passed at them.
When they all ran, Matt just "happened" to still have the Dagger.
If he didn't then we'd have lost the Matt whom we all love.

Think of all the things that happened to Matt and shaped who he was BECAUSE he had the Dagger.

I never thought of it in that way, but it makes PERFECT sense.

 

[Boreas Silverfir]

I really like the TV show depiction of it. Very much a, "ooh shiny" reaction which had him pick it up. Immediately followed by the "Oh Sht, Bad Things" which made everyone forget about it

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

Which is fairly accurate to the book too. Matt grabbed it to defend himself and then they were all like Oh snap run!!

 

[Yersinia al'Mycel]

Ive actually been listening to a reread podcast and they just did this part. I agree that it got him to where he needed to be but I also was sad at the way he treated his friends and never addressed it after the healing.

The same could also be said about

Spoiler

Perrin killing the white cloaks after they kill Hopper and it sends him into the wolf rage

Which podcast? I was listening to Coplin Talk, but they haven't posted a new episode in a while, and I am craving WoT content

 

[Toral Delvar]

I also blame Moiraine. She'd given them no reason to trust her - even said she'd destroy them if they got in her way, she knew what Mat was like and had just had an example of him wandering off because she wasn't clear that Shadar Logoth was dangerous to everyone, not just Shadowspawn (again, a feature of her love of secrecy and feeling superior to people who don't know as much as her), but instead of asking if they took anything, she just asked if Mordy gave them anything.
I don't know if the pattern forced him (the way ta'veren works is a little conflicted. It is said that it changes chance, but in reality, things happen that would neve happen, other than on a quantum level, anything is possible), but it was one of the things Min saw about him, so the dagger was interwoven with him no matter what he did

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

I also blame Moiraine. She'd given them no reason to trust her - even said she'd destroy them if they got in her way, she knew what Mat was like and had just had an example of him wandering off because she wasn't clear that Shadar Logoth was dangerous to everyone, not just Shadowspawn (again, a feature of her love of secrecy and feeling superior to people who don't know as much as her), but instead of asking if they took anything, she just asked if Mordy gave them anything.
I don't know if the pattern forced him (the way ta'veren works is a little conflicted. It is said that it changes chance, but in reality, things happen that would neve happen, other than on a quantum level, anything is possible), but it was one of the things Min saw about him, so the dagger was interwoven with him no matter what he did

True.