Book V Film (or TV)

Discussion in 'Non-WOT - Literature and Fiction' started by Toral Delvar, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    We had one of these on the old boards, and having just watched Season 2 of Game of Thrones I wanted another.
    Many things make the difference between a good and bad adaption. For some hard core fans, even minor differences can ruin a film, but I wouldn't go that far. Some adaptions, such as Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkahban are terrible, as the director seems to have no understanding of the material, and makes the decision to replace any dialogue that would explain what was happening and why with fart jokes and scenery. Others, such as Stardust can take immense liberties with the source Material, but still work well
    Clash of Kings Vs Game of Thrones Season 2
    I didn't think any of the storylines was better than the book, with the possible with the possible exception of moving Jaime/Brienne to season 2 from Season 3)
    The OK
    Jon and the Nightwatch
    This was pretty much intact, though Ygritte had a much larger role and I missed Quorin's line that he half expected Jon to release her and either way he would known more about what kind of person she was
    Tyrion
    Again, I don't recall any major changes, even less so that with Jon. Shae is still too clever and aware for it to be believable that Tyrion would fall for her, but at least they toned back the open cynicism. Tyrion giving Joffrey a whore and Joffrey getting off on having her beaten was actually a change I did like
    Dany.
    Major changes, but they needed to do something and having her spend half the series dying in the red waste would have been boring. I wasn't particularly bothered by the kidnapping of the Dragons, and the loss of the visions she received is understandable, especially as it seems they are really going with Ned as Jon's father (or at least have dropped all the hints from the books as to his true parentage)
    Arya
    It was a shame to drop all of Hoat, and to have her leave Harrenall without doing anything, as well as losing the freeing of the Frey/Bolton men, but I guess something had to go to fit the book in 10 episodes, and they seem to be trying to make her less harsh than in the books
    The Bad
    Theon
    While I can understand trying to humanise him, he still had two children killed so there wasn't really much point. Having Dagmer responsible for pretty much everything might have meant they would get away with not introducing Bolton's bastard, but his treachery was an important part of the book. Theon being stabbed at the end was just silly. If he hadn't won the loyalty of the men by that point, they could have left with his sister (whose TV name I forget)
    The Ugly
    Robb
    Again, he was barely in the book, so they needed to give him something to do, but to have him make a considered decision to betray his vows, rather than having him forced into it on a point of honour because of a moment's weakness is not good. It's going to be hard to have much sympathy for him at the Red Wedding, or to think of him as anything but an idiot for going.
     
  2. Dars al'Kaskade

    Dars al'Kaskade Recruit

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    Great topic!

    I am watching Season 3 of Star Wars: The Clone Wars right now, and was surprised that a story arc came up involving the planet Dathomir and the Nightsisters, both of which I am familiar with from the mid-90s novel The Courtship of Princess Leia. The respective stories being told are different (and 25 or so years apart), but the depictions were rather wildly different. In my opinion the television version was good for its own part, but the differences in depiction bothered me considerably.

    In the novel, Dathomir is a more or less normal (albeit far-flung and isolated) planet with forests, mountains, deserts, etc. In the television show, it is a rather hellish planet with a red sky and a landscape of haunted-looking trees and hanging globular sacks of something.

    In the novel and the previously-established Expanded Universe that I am familiar with, the Nightsisters are essentially just women who use the Dark Side of the Force. They and the many Light Side users who inhabit Dathomir in intensely matriarchal society do use spoken spells when using the force, and they are referred to as witches (in fact, they bear some similarity and may have been inspired by Aes Sedai). In the television show, they are depicted in a far more exotic manner, using strange potions and spells and glowing green "water of life" spirit stuff (Dune, anyone?) that seems very different from the Force. They also have a stylized look that could be described as "punk ninja witch" and are extremely creepy in a way that matches the planet.

    ...and then, there is the inclusion of the Darth Maul culture of men who supposedly live on the other side of Dathomir in the television version. Now, this is part of what fueled my dissatisfaction. It made some sense to say that Asaj Ventriss was a Nightsister, but saying that Maul also came from Dathomir makes me wish that they would have just came up with an original planet, instead of taking an already-established (and for me, much-loved) one and disrespectfully contorting it to fit their story. The DVD has a featurette that discusses the episode, but they avoid the topic of how much they changed Dathomir, which strikes me as a bit cowardly. I could go on, but that is basically it.

    The other one that comes immediately to mind is The Hobbit. Suffice it to say that I was disappointed with the film as an adaption of the book.

    Ah! Also, the Secret of NIMH animated film, which adapted what is perhaps my favorite children's novel ever, Mrs. Frisby & the Rats of NIMH. I understand that the film is held in high regard as a cult classic of non-Disney animation, but it took considerable liberty with the source material, thus incurring the full extent of my wrath. :look
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  3. Dieda Eriu

    Dieda Eriu Aes Sedai

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    I rarely ever like the adaptations, unless perhaps I've watched them before I've read the book :cheese It's not about the details that don't make it into the movie - I don't really care about those. Since literature ad film use completely different means of storytelling, it's quite normal that some things wouldn't work on screen and it's totally necessary to cut out everything that isn't... necessary :look for one's interpretation of the story on screen.

    BUT they tend to be somehow shoddy, IMO. The characters become shallow. The story starts to look trivial. There are lots of special effects and flashy costumes an' such instead... :cheese I honestly think these projects tend to be overly ambitious. And a good screen adaptation is really difficult to do.

    I didn't like either LotR movies or Harry Potter (but I've only seen the first three, and stopped :look). I don't think I'll watch Hobbit.

    I liked Hunger Gaames, though, but maybe because I didn't think book was especially good - I honestly think average books are easier to adapt for film. In any case, it was amusing.

    It's really difficult to think of a good adaptation besides Treasure of Sierra Madre :cheese and Dune. And The Dead. Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy :p

    Besides, I rarely find a movie I consider really good, so, meh...

    Oh, oh, Lonesome Dove miniseries was really good! Admittedly I haven't read the book yet, so I can't really say, but the miniseries was amazing and I don't see that reading the book would change my opinion.

    Also, Eureka Street Miniseries. Maybe I'm just partial to the miniseries format :p
     
  4. CitezenOfAringill

    CitezenOfAringill

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    If you want to see how badly a film can take on a good book, especially within the realm of fantasy, look no further than that stupid Eragon film which ruined hundreds of people's perception on the Inheritance cycle
     
  5. Dars al'Kaskade

    Dars al'Kaskade Recruit

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    I have what I guess is an odd perspective on Eragon - I saw the film without knowing anything about the book, and I havta say that I enjoyed the film. But it seems like most people didn't. :look
     
  6. Brandegoris Al'Mor

    Brandegoris Al'Mor Citizen

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    Hmmmm Toral? may I ask..under Dany you mentioned the show going with NED as johns father? im just confused by the statement, maube I am not that smart! :) But are you saying that In the show they are saying NED IS jons father? or..Idk..the way that was written has utterly confused me and now Im lost! hahah
     
  7. Belgareth Kiarc

    Belgareth Kiarc

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    The show is presenting the idea idea that Ned Stark is the father of Jon Snow by an as yet unnamed mother. There are theories arising from the books that suggest that Ned isn't the father. A popular one being that Jon Snow is actually the offspring of Rhaegar Targaryen and Ned's sister Lyanna Stark. I think this is linked to the point when Lyanna dies, she makes Ned make a promise to her which isn't yet known. Could be she's asking him to look after her baby? Jon Snow is Stark blood of some kind because he is described at 14 years old as having more Stark-like facial features than any of his siblings. I personally think the show has dropped all the book hints so as to do a shock reveal in later series. It's what I'd do to keep excitement and drama.
     
  8. Brandegoris Al'Mor

    Brandegoris Al'Mor Citizen

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    OHHH I see. How the hell did I never pick up on that? When I read the books I never doubted that NED was the father. i just assumed the mother was going to be some type of EPIC reveal and blow our minds! Like Royalty or something? Maybe my simplistic mind ate up the crap the Marti n was trying to feed me! hahah
     
  9. Toral Delvar

    Toral Delvar Archivist Gaidin

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    Yeah
    In the books, there are lots of little things that don't make sense if Jon is Ned's bastard - such as not even Ned thinking badly of Rhaegar, and his high opinion of the Kingsguard he had to kill to get to his dying sister (really, rhaegar said "oh, she's dying up there, make sure she dies alone and suffering" and they just nodded and obeyed?, Lyanna' having lots of blue roses round her when she died (and being given one before by Rhaegar, plus Dany's vision of a blue rose in a wall of ice, even little things such as Ned dismissing the idea that Stannis could be Gendry's father because he is too cold in his honour without thinking that people might say the same about him. Probably lots more that I can't think of off the top of my head.
    It could be they do a shock reveal, but it would seem to come out of nowhere, and as Brandegoris said, even with the hints, people wouldn't necessarily pick up on them
     
  10. Brandegoris Al'Mor

    Brandegoris Al'Mor Citizen

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    MAN!! Now im re-excited!! Thanks!

    So what IF Robert Baratheon AND Lyanna were in love and he DID get her pregnant? And THAT makes jon a stark, and a Baratheon ( and royalty) , AND also leaves him as a perfect candidate to marry Daenary's? LOL WOW! That's crazy!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013