2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising

Megana Vallentin

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 29-35

:laugh: Yeah totally just considering these chapters,not everything else that's coming.
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

Chapter 31 (part 2)

  • Bornhald is so blinded by confirmation bias. Trollocs burning farms = some people are Darkfriends. What about in the Borderlands? Trollocs are there all the time. Granted, there are Darkfriends everywhere, but just because there are bad things happening doesn't mean the Darkfriends are causing it.
  • Whitecloaks have no understanding of how the Breaking happened. They don't think that 3000 years of evidence that women won't go mad and cause another Breaking is good enough to prove that women won't go mad and cause another Breaking.
  • Bornhald doesn't trust the girls with Fain.
  • The Two Rivers folk are ignoring Dragon's Fangs.
  • Bornhald doesn't know why he's in the Two Rivers; he's just following orders.
  • Fain killed Perrin's family, not Trollocs, and Bornhald helped cover it up even though he doesn't condone the murder of Children...but children are ok to kill.
  • Fain underestimates Rand's determination to do what has to be done and to cut ties with the past.
Chapter 33
  • Perrin starts thinking of the Two Rivers folk as his people.
  • Luc knows Perrin from the Wolf Dream.
  • Perrin takes charge without meaning to.
  • Perrin gives orders and Tam and Abell back him up and approve.
  • Bain likes Gaul and chides Chiad for mocking him.
Chapter 34
  • I thought it was interesting that men see through men's eyes and women through women's eyes when Aiel go through the glass columns.
  • Mat and Rand have only been out of Rhuidean for a few hours and Rand can already judge that Mat is a pro with the Old Tongue. :rolleyes
  • Rand's father was killed by Luc/Slayer.


I think the contrast between Rand and Perrin is fascinating. They have totally different circumstances, and the contrast between how they assume leadership is interesting. Remember, Rand does have natural leadership abilities -- we saw that in book 2 with the Shienarans. However, he's thrust into the position of having to lead a foreign (to him) people (Tear) with incomprehensible customs. He has to fulfill prophecy, and he's being hunted by the Forsaken, and he has Moiraine trying to "guide" him. He's full of resentment and fear and the idea that he has to save the world and also that he has to run from his enemies. Perrin is leading his own people, folk he identifies with because he grew up with them, they want his leadership and welcome him. He speaks common sense to those who welcome common sense (his ta'verenness doesn't hurt either :P ), while Rand is speaking what seems to be common sense to anyone not a noble. I actually wonder how much of what he orders the High Lords to do Elayne would agree with and understand, given she's highborn (even though she does have to think about all the people in her nation). So yeah, Rand is awkward taking power, and Perrin is much smoother, but their circumstances are so very, very different: Rand is taking power, and Perrin is assuming power.
 

Kassina Tendar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 29-35

This might be petty of me, but it annoys me a lot when Perrin and company arrive at the farm before getting to the Whitecloak camp and he sees the girl he used to love keep. Then he's like oh wow she's fat now, I really dodged a bullet there, huh? It's just such a weird thing to include and it makes Perrin look really shallow.
Yeah, that bothered me as well. :grumble

Rhed said:
Deindre had a Foretelling. I wonder if that's why the Aes Sedai later joined the Aiel.

I like that! That makes a lot of sense. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense why there are suddenly Aes Sedai traveling with the Jenn. It could've been part of the foretelling and, since they didn't know when the foretelling would happen, they had to just send Aes Sedai to travel with them for awhile.

And again, I'm two weeks behind on posting. :rolleyes More detailed thoughts to come.
 
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Megana Vallentin

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

I think the contrast between Rand and Perrin is fascinating. They have totally different circumstances, and the contrast between how they assume leadership is interesting. Remember, Rand does have natural leadership abilities -- we saw that in book 2 with the Shienarans. However, he's thrust into the position of having to lead a foreign (to him) people (Tear) with incomprehensible customs. He has to fulfill prophecy, and he's being hunted by the Forsaken, and he has Moiraine trying to "guide" him. He's full of resentment and fear and the idea that he has to save the world and also that he has to run from his enemies. Perrin is leading his own people, folk he identifies with because he grew up with them, they want his leadership and welcome him. He speaks common sense to those who welcome common sense (his ta'verenness doesn't hurt either :P ), while Rand is speaking what seems to be common sense to anyone not a noble. I actually wonder how much of what he orders the High Lords to do Elayne would agree with and understand, given she's highborn (even though she does have to think about all the people in her nation). So yeah, Rand is awkward taking power, and Perrin is much smoother, but their circumstances are so very, very different: Rand is taking power, and Perrin is assuming power.

Ooh, I hadn't though of it that way, Mother! When I imagine myself taking charge of people I know well versus people I've just met and consider to be "above me" in some way...yeah that makes a difference.
 

Kassina Tendar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

Chapter 22:
-Egwene chides Rand for the same thing he was attempting to chide her for. :scratch That was a very strange exchange.
This was almos tlike old times, he ready to explain why and how she was wrong, and she snatching his position and tossing his own unvoiced explanation at him
At least Rand seems more amused/nostalgic at it than annoyed. :cheeseeni:
-The whole thing with Elayne's 2 letters just drives me crazy. :rolleyes I don't think we ever get to actually know the contents of the letters, but they sound insanely confusing. And then Aviendha tells him that he should have tried to stop her, but of course he had no right to stop her. :rolleyes Poor Rand. Aviendha keeps telling him he treated Elayne badly... but all he did was not try to convince her to stay. :brown-blink:
-Lan seems to agree with Rand (and disagree with Moiraine) that someone had to go back to help the Two Rivers
-Even if their clans have blood feud, Aiel won't attack members of their own society.
-Moiraine heard about their group's arrival in the Waste from the Wise Ones who knew of it through dreams. Moiraine is worried, but doesn't actively try to stop Rand once they get to the portal stone because of what she knows/suspects. And she understands ta'veren enough to be willing to let Mat 'randomly' decide which symbol to use.

Chapter 23:
-Lan hasn't told Moiraine much about the Aiel since she never asked him about it. :laugh: I love her dry "I will remedy that." :p
-Rand assumed his mother was the Aiel in his bloodline because he knew she was a Maiden, but finds out that, actually, it was his father.
-Moiraine is surprised that Amys and Melaine can Channel. So she knew they could Dream, but also knew enough about Dreaming to know that it's not linked to the Power.
-The Wise Ones know of Lan and even have a special name for him. I thought that was cool. :)
-Egwene is very impatient to learn Dreaming. It seems as if she's expecting to learn everything in a day or two. She even doesn't want Moiraine asking the Wise Ones about ji'e'toh. She wants to start right now. (though you'd think that living among the Aiel, it would be useful to know at least a little about ji'e'toh)
-I quite like Aiel humor sometimes. I found the story about the guy whose mother-in-law was gai'shain to him quite funny. :laugh:
-The Wise Ones' viewings in the Dream were conditional. If Lan hadn't come Moiraine would have died and if Moiraine hadn't come Rand would've died.
-I'd love to hear what Moiraine heard from the Aelfinn. She's certain that she must go to Rhuidean. Also interestingly, the Wise Ones don't try to stop her. (perhaps they saw this in the Dream as well) Maybe that wasn't part of what she heard from the Aelfinn then. Maybe it was from the Wise Ones' letter.
-It's a common theme in the book that too much knowledge of the future is dangerous.
-Egwene asks if she must go to Rhuidean "if everyone else was going" :rofl I just love that. "Well, everyone else is doing it. I guess I should go to Rhuidean, too. :cheeseeni: " :laugh:

Chapter 24:
-When they enter Rhuidean, Mat wonders if whoever built it had managed to grow any trees.
-Mat never actually asks or is told that the Eelfinn can answer questions. He just tells the guy to lead the way if he can answer questions and he'll leave if not. He just assumes that they can answer questions and the Eelfinn he meets doesn't disabuse him of the notion.
-Mat rambles and rambles and in his rambling ends up making requests/wishes. He asks to have the holes in his memory filled, a way to be free of Aes Sedai and Power and a way to be free of the Eelfinn and back in Rhuidean.

Chapter 25:
-The Aes Sedai at Rhuidean mention Rand when making the Pact of Rhuidean. An Aiel asks if whoever goes to Rhuidean will lead the Aiel and he's told that, "No, that one will come later." and then tells the Car'a'carn prophecy.
-The Jenn that have managed to keep faith and finish what the Aes Sedai instructed them to do create Rhuidean with the help of the Aes Sedai traveling with them and finally find a place to put the remaining ter'angreal that they'd been instructed to carry. It's amazing how long ago those orders were given by the Aes Sedai to the Aiel and yet, now, the fate of the world rests on them. (and in Mat entering the realm of the Eelfinn in Rhuidean)
-By the time the Aiel cross the Dragonwall, they can't imagine a time before they fought people who lived in towns.
-The Aes Sedai foretell about Rhuidean and the fact that water will flow in the Waste. They get Ogier to help build the city for them.
-To the Aiel only Aiel, Jenn and enemies exist by the time they cross the Dragonwall.
-The weather and the land itself is very volatile during and after the Breaking.
-After the Aiel split from the Jenn, the Aiel start living in tents while the Jenn still live in wagons. Probably just because they split from the people who owned the wagons. That's why the Traveling People have wagons. Because they actually took some of the original wagons with them when they split.
-We get to see the first Maiden of the Spear. When Morin takes up a spear to help rescue her daughter. She even says that the spear is her husband now. Because of that, we see the first of the short spears the Aiel use, chopped short to make it easier for Morin to use.
-Morin also can Dream.
-I love seeing all the little bits that changed in history to create the modern day Aiel. We get to see the first Aiel use of a spear, from a freaked out Lewin frantically grasping about around him and his hand happening to land on a spear. And then how adamant he is that a spear is one thing, but a sword is absolutely wrong.
-The Aiel pull the wagons themselves rather than horses at some point. Is that why they dislike horses so much right now? They got so used to running and walking insanely long distances and pulling wagons themselves that horses seem silly and useless now?
-Man, the Aiel are harsh. D: (disowning their son after learning he killed someone) I do understand why they act that way, based on their ideology, but wow, poor Lewin. :(
-Lewin veils his face, the first of 'our' Aiel to do so.

Chapter 26:
-The tuatha'an break off from the Aiel, not in search of one specific song at the start, but in search of the beautiful songs the Aiel themselves used to sing.
-Adan notices the twisted doorway ter'angreal which eventually gets deposited in Rhuidean. It's good that was one of the ter'angreal that survived the trip to the Waste. :brown-blink:
-We see the start of the Longing in the Ogier.
-People had much longer lifespans in the Age of Legends.
-We get to see life as the Breaking is happening when it's still creepy for people to think that the only women you'll see calmly making plans are now women.
-The Green Man! The Aes Sedai give him his last task. There used to be many Nym.
-Aiel slaughtered by a mad male Aes Sedai as they held hands, sang and tried to remind him who he was and who they were. :( :cry
-As important as the ter'angreal were, the real reason the Aes Sedai sent the Aiel away was to preserve the Aiel themselves.
-Even before the Aiel start wandering there are some who have broken the covenant.
-I love how different world views are shown as being between generations and son. Charn claims that there had been a time before soldiers, but Coumin (his great grandson) doesn't believe it. It's very realistic and I love how it shows the progression of the Aiel. And how Da'shain Aiel who had served the Forsaken are still around and still remember when the Forsaken weren't evil during the War of the Power.
-Only male Aiel sing with the Ogier. The women just clap along.
-Corn! = zemai
-It's so sad hearing about the Bore being sealed and the Forsaken trapped beyond and how happy everyone is. :(
-Da'shain occupied a very special position in the Age of Legends. A guy runs into Coumin and is incredibly rude to him until he realizes he's Da'shain.
-Charn feels like he's failed the Aes Sedai by not stopping the drilling of the Bore.
-Rand knows a version of CPR.
-Mat can read the Old Tongue written on his spear.
-Mat has a headache "like a thousand bits of dreams, and every one a needle" partly because of all the new memories in his head.

Chapter 27:
-Faile acts really childish and then gets really mad at Perrin for acting childish himself. (trying to walk ahead out of the light just to make her worry) and starts slapping him. :mad
-"Why should he be guilty? Was he supposed to stand there and let her hit him to her heart's content?" Yeah, Perrin, I really have no idea what she expected you to do. :cheeseeni:
-And then of course she continues acting childish and tells him she only called him over because "she wanted to see if he could be taught to come when she calls" :rolleyes Poor Loial. And then they're in the Ways which is insanely dangerous and she's just sitting on her horse just waiting for him to suggest following the white line to the Waygate so she can tell him off. :rolleyes
-They're really lucky that they only encountered the trollocs/myrddraal and Machin Shin right after they found the Waygate. :brown-blink: I mean, I realize the trollocs were headed to the Manethereren waygate, too, but that's still quite a bit of luck.
-Ugh, Slayer. :(
-Faile is acting like Faile again. Insisting she won't sew up his coat for him like she's angry at him, when he never suggested it in the first place. :brown-blink:
-Perrin thinks "What was he supposed to have done now?" He thinks that a lot around Faile.
 
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Aduiavas Ida

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

Those visions are one of the most intriguing parts of the books, and one of the main reasons that book 4 is one of my favourites :pleased-1:
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

Kassina said:
-I'd love to hear what Moiraine heard from the Aelfinn. She's certain that she must go to Rhuidean. Also interestingly, the Wise Ones don't try to stop her. (perhaps they saw this in the Dream as well) Maybe that wasn't part of what she heard from the Aelfinn then. Maybe it was from the Wise Ones' letter.

I got the impression Moiraine wasn't certain until she heard Melaine say that she had to go through the rings. I think maybe part of it is what she heard from the Aelfinn.

Kassina said:
and yet, now, the fate of the world rests on them. (and in Mat entering the realm of the Eelfinn in Rhuidean)

Everything rests on them coming to the Waste. So crazy! If Moiraine hadn't gone, Rand would have died. If Lan hadn't gone, Moiraine would have died, and therefore (probably) Rand would have died. If Moiraine hadn't gone, she wouldn't have collected the ter'angreal, including the doorway, and therefore wouldn't have been able to take Lanfear out of the game for a bit. If Mat hadn't gone to the Eelfinn, he wouldn't have gained the battle knowledge he needed to direct the Last Battle (and battles leading up to it). That's really why he went (in a grand, overarcing sense) -- to get that knowledge. Oh, and the ashandarei. That's what gets him out of the Eelfinn's place later, when rescuing Moiraine...who's needed at the Last Battle. Gaaaaaah everything pivots on the Waste and Rhuidean!

The Aiel pull the wagons themselves rather than horses at some point. Is that why they dislike horses so much right now? They got so used to running and walking insanely long distances and pulling wagons themselves that horses seem silly and useless now?

Oh, I hadn't thought of that. :brown-blink:

Corn! = zemai

:facepalm Of course. Maize.
 

Kassina Tendar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

I had to google zemai to find out it was supposed to be maize. :look: When I first saw it my brain went straight to 'zenmai' which is vegetable found in the mountains in Japan. :laugh: Even though I knew that couldn't be what Jordan was referring to.

Everything rests on them coming to the Waste. So crazy! If Moiraine hadn't gone, Rand would have died. If Lan hadn't gone, Moiraine would have died, and therefore (probably) Rand would have died. If Moiraine hadn't gone, she wouldn't have collected the ter'angreal, including the doorway, and therefore wouldn't have been able to take Lanfear out of the game for a bit. If Mat hadn't gone to the Eelfinn, he wouldn't have gained the battle knowledge he needed to direct the Last Battle (and battles leading up to it). That's really why he went (in a grand, overarcing sense) -- to get that knowledge. Oh, and the ashandarei. That's what gets him out of the Eelfinn's place later, when rescuing Moiraine...who's needed at the Last Battle. Gaaaaaah everything pivots on the Waste and Rhuidean!
Yeah! It's really kinda scary how fragile that all seems looking back on it. :brown-blink: The Aiel wandering trying to find a 'safe' place for the ter'angreal and the more they travel the more ter'angreal get lost (scattering them through the continent) and so much rests on them transporting one specific ter'angreal to Rhuidean (which they didn't know was special and thus didn't know they had to protect in particular). :brown-blink: :brown-blink:
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

Well, the doorway and also the super angreal -- aren't the ones to use the giant statues in Rhuidean? Rand felt pulled to one when he was walking to the columns but thought something like "not right now" and resisted.
 

Kassina Tendar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

Oh, yeah, those two! I forgot about them.
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

And all of them would be so easy to leave behind. The doorway because it's big and awkward and heavy and who wants to keep hauling it, and the smaller ones because they're small.

Just... like... All these pieces. :laugh:

I'm so glad to be doing this re-read and to be doing it so slowly, and with people I can talk to about it, so I can catch all this stuff. :D
 

Kassina Tendar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

Yeah! This is definitely the way to do a reread. :)
 
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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

I know I don't comment a ton but I'm REALLY enjoying this as well. I always love rereading this books anyway, but doing it with the group is adding a new dimension that I'm really enjoying. :pleased-1:
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

I agree, I really enjoy this reread :pleased-1: I love how this series just keeps on giving, even though I have reread it again and again :look:
 

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

I'm finally caught up! :joy

Chapter 28:
-Faile still insists on two camps even after they get through Waygate. :indifferent: I'm so pissed on behalf of Loial. He shouldn't have to put up with this anymore (his promise only extended to the trip through the Waygate and he tries to tell her that), but Faile just bullies him into it. :(
-:facepalm Not that Perrin's helping. Although I admit I found his sudden laughter and then "I do. Women!" to make Faile think they're talking about her funny...
-Perrin thinks that "Mat was the only one who still seemed to be just himself, only more so". :laugh:
-Perrin can see visions in windows in the air in the wolf dream. Do we see this a lot later? I don't remember this much from the later books. :scratch
-"Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to daze, iron to bind." This will be very important for Mat later.
-I'd forgotten that Perrin's actually the one who 'names' Slayer.
-Hopper can't see Birgitte. Presumably she only wants Perrin to see him since she's kinda breaking the rules anyway.

Chapter 29:
-The Aiel give Mistress al'Vere things looted from the Stone of Tear. :laugh: I'd love to see her finding out that she now owns stolen treasures from the Stone of Tear. :p
-Lord Luc. :facepalm It's frustrating on the reread knowing how much of a pain Slayer's going to be... What was Lord Luc's goal in trying to 'protect' the Two Rivers and help the people there? (even if his help is minimal and perhaps less than helpful)

Chapter 30:
-Perrin thinks "He did not know how he was going to be able to make up to her for the way he had treated her these last few days." Really? :indifferent: She's the one who's been acting ridiculous.
-Loial offers to sing to the apple trees at the graves of Perrin's family. :cry I love Loial.
-Mistress al'Vere thinks that Perrin will be totally fine with staying with Aes Sedai since he left with one and Verin's been asking about him.

Chapter 31:
-Verin and Alanna talk about the Whites' 'mad plan' to have gentled male channelers have children. I don't think the plan is really that mad, though of course you'd have to find women who want to do it and the gentled channelers have to want to do it as well. Though I liked that Verin suggested that the Whites do it themselves. :laugh: I'd have loved to see Alviarin's face. :p
-Alanna says she might have liked to bond ta'veren to keep them close, but says she's not so lost to custom yet that she would do that... just give it time, Alanna. :rolleyes
-Abell and Tam are intersted in how Perrin came to be traveling with an Ogier and three Aiel and Perrin hastens to assure them that it's... complicated... but surely has nothing to do with ta'veren!
-It's always frustrating how misinformed the Whitecloaks are. :facepalm They're so blinded by their ideology that of course the Seanchan are darkfriends and of course if there are channelers fighting with them they must be Aes Sedai.
-Bornhald wonders why Niall sent the Children to the Two Rivers and if he knew the Trollocs were coming... Did Niall know about the Trollocs? :scratch
-Fain wants to destroy the Tower for what they've taken from him. I assume that's the Shadar Logoth dagger? Though it wasn't Aes Sedai who stole it from him, it was Rand and Loial... But if it's not the dagger, what does he think the Tower took from him?

Chapter 32:
-Faile can't keep the story of her father straight. :laugh: He's now a merchant who also raises sheep.
-Perrin actually shivers when he sees Laila, whom he'd dreamed of marrying, who's now apparently gained a lot of weight. He even 'thanks the Light for his escape." :rolleyes Really, Perrin??

Chapter 33:
-Perrin despises Luc on sight.
-Luc is surprised to see Perrin (recognizes him from the wolf dream) and Perrin's confused since it doesn't seem to be his yellow eyes that surprise him and he even seems afraid of Perrin.
-Faile. :indifferent: She asks for forgiveness and when Perrin says that of course he forgives her, she gets angry. :rolleyes and then turns it around on him and doesn't evne accept his apology.
-I like the comment about Ban getting all the nose in the al'Seen family. :rofl
-Perrin is a good and natural leader. He organizes his followers into groups to keep them from bickering and refuses to deal with their nonsense.

Chapter 34:
-What is the 'price rhe must pay' in the prophecy? For the second dragon.
-Rand briefly suspects that Moiraine might have influenced what Rand saw in the columns. :brown-blink:
-Rand's father Janduin was killed by Luc. Not something you would pick up on when you're just reading this for the first time. Yay rereads! :D
-I love Wheel of Time (obviously), but it does bother me sometimes how weirdly separate the men and women are. I mean, I understand it in a channeling context and most contexts (I mean, in this world, men and women can't even use the same magic), but, for example, Rand wants to be left alone with his thoughts after he hears about his parents. And all the women act one way and all the men act another. "Women never understood. Rhuarc and Lan and Mat did; they left him alone, as he wanted." Not a big deal, but it did make me :arch that responses to finding out about your biological parents apparently have such gender-dictated responses. (at least among the people in the tent at the time)

Chapter 35:
-Egwene starts to think about organizing the White Tower differently and how Channelers are dealt with in other cultures. About how, despite the Three Oaths, Aes Sedai are distrusted. Meanwhile, the Wise Ones are very respected and have to swear no such oaths. The beginning of her plans to tie together all Channelers.
-Elayne learns why Callandor is in the floor of the Stone and is disappointed because he didn't do it because of her. :rolleyes She knew he was calling a big meeting with the High Lords the day she left. Though, of course, this is a very realistic thing that gets repeated a lot in this story. People hear about someone else's actions and assume that they must be the motivation for it. Frustrating to read about, but very realistic as this definitely happens in real life.
-Elayne admits she's trying to make Rand love her. :brown-blink: "I am trying to make him love me, after all. Just tryign tom ake him love me. Oh, why can't men be simple? Why do they have to cause such difficulties?" Ummm... :brown-blink: :brown-blink:
-Egwene blatantly breaks her promise to the Wise Ones (it is for a good reason, but she could've just asked about meeting with Nynaeve and Elayne from the beginning when she made the promise!) and then gets indignant with Amys and acts like she's being unreasonable. On top of just being rude and jeopardizing her training with the Wise Ones, it also jeopardizes her cover as Aes Sedai. The Wise Ones know Aes Sedai can't lie and Egwene just blatantly lied. Amys even mentions it. :rolleyes And then rather than humbly asking if Amys would accompany her to her meetings in TAR, she basically demands that Amys must now accompany her if she won't let her go on her own. YOU'RE THE ONE WHO PROMISED NOT TO! :mad Normally, I really like Egwene, but this frustrates me. She even thinks "She had given her word, but this was all so unfair." :indifferent: Exactly. You gave your word. It is not unfair at all.
-Egwene also thinks that they've taught her so much already, when it sounds like they've really just started.

Chapter 36:
-And Rand does the same thing Elayne does, assuming that everyone else's actions revolve around himself. He assumes that Aviendha is dressing like a wise one and no longer carried spears because of him. He does realize the reason later, but he probably could've figured it out earlier if he'd actually cared to. :p
-Mat thinks he'd have to be a fool to tangle himself with a woman who can channel. He accidentally does it later with Tuon. :laugh:
-The thing that Moiraine is holding and the others are always gathered around. Is it an eavesdropping ter'angreal?
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

No I don't think Niall knows about the Trollocs.. Remember, they were all sent there with Fain. He just wants to use the Whitecloaks to lure Rand back :look:
I do wonder though, in the beginning, Fain hunts all three ta'veren. But both here and in book two, only Rand matters. When did that change?

And I think the thing Moiraine is holding is her little blue stone that she uses as a focus for the weave to listen to others conversations ;)
 

Kassina Tendar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

Oh, that would make sense! I didn't think she had a ter'angreal that would do that (I thought maybe she'd looted it from Rhuidean :laugh: ) but that makes more sense. :)

It could be because Rand's the one who stole the dagger from Fain. That would help fuel his personal vendetta against Rand at least. It does seem to be very personal for him.
 
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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

Here's how I understand Fain's vendetta:

The Dark One wasn't sure which of the 3 boys would be the Dragon Reborn so he distilled all 3 of their "essences" into Fain so he could track them. This resulted in Fain tortured searching, made worse when the boys split up. But once it was clear that Rand was the one he was looking for then he became the main person to be tracked. That cemented Fain's hatred for him. Then when Rand stole the dagger back from Fain, Rand became the focus of all his hatred.

Am I overlooking something important?
 

Megana Vallentin

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 36-42

No I don't think Niall knows about the Trollocs.. Remember, they were all sent there with Fain. He just wants to use the Whitecloaks to lure Rand back :look:

I do wonder though, in the beginning, Fain hunts all three ta'veren. But both here and in book two, only Rand matters. When did that change?

And I think the thing Moiraine is holding is her little blue stone that she uses as a focus for the weave to listen to others conversations ;)

Here's how I understand Fain's vendetta:

The Dark One wasn't sure which of the 3 boys would be the Dragon Reborn so he distilled all 3 of their "essences" into Fain so he could track them. This resulted in Fain tortured searching, made worse when the boys split up. But once it was clear that Rand was the one he was looking for then he became the main person to be tracked. That cemented Fain's hatred for him. Then when Rand stole the dagger back from Fain, Rand became the focus of all his hatred.

Am I overlooking something important?

I had the same thoughts as Aduiavas re: Trollocs and Moiraine's stone, and Maibella re: Fain, though I thought of the dagger as just kind of incidental compared to the urge to find Rand that was instilled (or distilled?) by the Dark One. :pleased-1:
 
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