2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    Arrogance masked as bravery? He's willing to jump in and fight, he's just also an idiot.
     
  2. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    He's willing to jump in and fight because "how could I ever lose?! I'm just so great and they are all nothing compared to me!" :p That's how I read just about everything Weiramon says. :lol
     
  3. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    :lol True.
     
  4. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    Remember that he is also a Darkfriend :look But yes, he is stupid and without a real perspective of reality :look
     
  5. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    >.> I always thought the stupidity was completely faked and he was just trying to screw Rand without getting caught.
     
  6. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    Hmm, that COULD be it Ryu, but I don't think so. Do I think he's trying to screw Rand in order to get ahead himself? Sure. But I think most of his actions are due to a combination of his own arrogance and his status as a Darkfriend (yet another way that he increases his own power).
     
  7. Leira Galene

    Leira Galene Mafia Admin Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    Still behind... :eek

    So I forgot how completely and utterly ANNOYING Rand's thing about Min is. Literally every time he thinks about Aviendha or Elayns he thinks "Min was the only woman who never confused me." Dude, you barely know her. Of course she's going to seem less confusing than people you've spent months living with-- and sleeping with. Because you haven't talked to her as much. Stfu already.

    I mean, the only significant amount of time he spent with her at this point was in the camp in the Mountains of Mist after Falme, right? That was what, like, a month? If that? Am I forgetting some period of time when they were together?
     
  8. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    No, I can't think of other times they've been together after Falme.
     
  9. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    I think it is him just being -really- smart and knowing "put dagger in back of Rand" is a short trip to an early grave even if he wins out, by masking his treachery behind incompetence he manages to hide that he is a dark friend from now until right near the end of the series, in Path of Daggers I think it was Rand even thinks "Is this guy a dark friend or is he just that stupid"
     
  10. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    I'd forgotten he was a Darkfriend. :cheese
     
  11. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    Me too Mother! :D
     
  12. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    Chapter 49, continued

    • Elayne and Nynaeve never consider they might get in trouble at Salidar.

    Chapter 50

    • The Salidarians are already looking at Egwene for Amyrlin. Suian's been doing her job.
    • Three seals still hold.
    • If Faolain had taken Marigan to be tested, would she have showed up as a channeler? -- Probably not, as we seen in LoC that she has a way of hiding that she's able to channel.
    • Even before Egwene as Amyrlin, they're testing older women -- not all women, but they're loosening the restrictions.
    • The men have beocme loyal to Elayne and Nynaeve.
    • Nynaeve caught lack of coolness between Leane and Suiane.
    • And like that, Uno and Thom are both conscripted into Bryne's service.
    • Elayne doesn't know how deeply her mother hurt Bryne. His reaction to her shows how thoroughly he's cut ties with Andor.
    • Nynaeve -- Suiane may have fallen , but a person's nature doesn't change so quickly.
    • Suian: "I hope Moiraine has managed to keep Egwene's backbone more supple than this." HAHAHAHAHAHAAaaaaaaaahahhaa.
    • Elayne has become very strong and doesn't even think of it any more.

    Chapter 51

    • Rand sees that Egwene stands for the Tower and will always see things as how they affect Aes Sedai.
    • The pressure is building on Rand to do more and more. Because Jordan saw these things, it allowed the story to get away from him a bit in the next few books -- because Rand had to do so much (plus the sprawling cast).
    • Asmodean is always in the background, playing mood music. He sees everything.
    • Moiraine thought of and checked for traps in the seals.
    • Elaida thinks to control Rand. (Surprise surprise.)
    • Alviarin doesn't want Rand to share her letter with Moiraine -- why?
    • Mat keeps the hanging scar hidden.
    • Rumor has started that Morgase is dead. Mat thinks Gaebril killed her and Mat doesn't know that Gaebril is Rahvin.
    • Rand makes Mat stop running because of need.
    • Moiraine knows her time has come.
    • Egwene feels that she can see another man in Rand's eyes, and that he's speaking through Rand.

    Chapter 52

    • Aviendha is flustered when Rand looks at her naked and she's not trying to fluster him.
    • Is Asmodean afraid something will happen in Cairhien while Rand is gone? Is that why he goes with him?
    • Moiraine goes to her death looking like a queen.
    • Where are the Maidens? -- Waiting for Rand.
    • Lews Therin is fighting for control and influence.
    • Moiraine also brought he bracelet out of Rhuidean, and left it for Lanfear to find, because it's part of it.

    Chapter 53

    • Why did the doorframe react to Moiraine and Lanfear the way it did (lightning, melting)? Was it the bracelet angreal?
    • Does Amys know about Moiraine?
    • Lan loses Moiraine, and is ready to give up Nynaeve as well, on the same day.
    • Moiraine didn't know Verin was Black. She uses Verin as a counter to Alviarin -- does she know Alviarin is Black?
    • Moiraine saw three paths after the news of Morgase -- her and Lanfear's death, Rand's death, or Rand carried away and turned to Lanfear.
    • What is the one small thing Moiraine knows happens after her death?
    • It's super not fair that Maidens must choose the hearth or the spear while men can have both.

    Chapter 54

    • Could Aviendha's work (assignment from the Wise Ones) have been to accept her fate? That's the kind of thing the Wise Ones would assign.
    • Rahvin knew Rand was coming. Knew *where* too. How? The ambush was prepared. -- Rahvin has wards set throughout Caemlyn to warn of a man channeling. But still. The ambush was ready.
    • Mat, Asmodean, and Aviendha were all dead.
    • All that loss -- on top of Moiraine -- broke Rand a little.
    • Rand opens a gateway on Trollocs and kills them.
    • How could Faolain be tested? Isn't there a ter'angreal for that?
    • Nynaeve discovers that removing the ring from contact with the dreamer removes the dreamer from TAR.
    • Lanfear, Graendal, Rahvin, and Sammael were plotting.

    Chapter 55

    • You see the encroaching madness -- Rand doesn't know his name for sure.
    • Rahvin is trying to use TAR against Rand by changing him to LTT.
    • Aes Sedai in the tower believe men and women to be equal in One Power strength.
    • The amount of balefire Rand used was extraordinary to go back so far.
    • Nynaeve tried to warn Rand against being in TAR in the flesh, and he brushes her off.

    Chapter 56

    • Asmodean knows he died and was brought back by balefire.
    • He wonders if he's reborn a new man, but decides he's not.
    • Graendal killed Asmodean, so she was in Caemlyn, in the palace. Perhaps she was pulled there by the channeling? Perhaps she was meeting with Rahvin when Rand showed up?
     
  13. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    I wondered that, too. I guessed it was probably the bracelet. It would explain why Moiraine had to lay the bracelet out for Lanfear to take. Unless the bracelet served some sort of need once in Eelfinn/Aelfinn-land.

    Well, we know she knows about her rescue attempt. I suppose that's not a 'small' thing (though it's not immediately important to Rand's obligations especially since it's not guaranteed so maybe that's all she meant by 'small'), but it is something she knew was going to happen.

    I've thought this as well. I realize there's the whole pregnancy thing which would get in the way of fighting, but after the child is actually born, why can't an Aiel woman be both a warrior and a mother? As you said, it doesn't stop the men.

    I assume that this was just a misinterpretation of the facts. I forget the exact details, but I believe it's stated that men are stronger in the Power, but there are some things women are better at (such as links, but I think there was something else that's explicitly stated at one point) that make up for it. That was very common knowledge in the Age of Legends and so maybe, while the idea that saidin and saidar are equal (just good at different things) remained, the how of it was lost in time and so modern Aes Sedai just know the bit that saidin and saidar are equal.
     
  14. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    I agree, it was a misinterpretation, and a forgetting of how things are. Aes Sedai have been afraid of men who can channel for so long, and have been culling them, that they haven't studied them, and so much knowledge from the Age of Legends has been lost.
     
  15. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    Chapter 55:
    -Rand enters Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh during his battle against Rahvin.
    -Nynaeve thinks Rahvin is as handsome as Galad.
    -Moghedien didn't watch what she was saying well enough, allowing Nynaeve to figure out that she's in Salidar.
    -Rand does an impressive job at resisting Rahvin's attempts to change Tel'aran'rhiod. Rahvin may not be an expert at it, but he certainly knows more than Rand.
    -Nynaeve (and Rand!) are really lucky that Rand was fighting Rahvin in Tel'aran'rhiod.
    -Rand goes crazy with balefire post-battle and just balefires trollocs and myrddraal continuously. :blink :blink
    -Rand's balefire to kill Rahvin went back pretty far. Even before the courtyard, it sounds like Rand had been chasing Rahvin through the hallways for awhile. That balefire must have been really powerful. We do know that it was insanely thick.
    -Rand checks the ground for bodies after he's done balefiring every shadowspawn he can find. He notices that not all the corpses are big enough to be men. Seriously, Rand, I get that you may not want to kill women since they're not normally warriors... but that's kind of insulting to the non-Maiden Aiel who died for you that you only seem torn up about the Maidens who died in the battle. :rolleyes This seriously gets old.
    -Poor Pevin. :(

    Chapter 56:
    -Does balefire in tel'aran'rhiod affect the waking world? Mat notices a gash down a wall that's smoother than a normal gash should be.
    -And Asmodean is dead.
    -What is it with Wheel of Time women and 'well turned calves'? :blink I can honestly say I've never thought that about a guy's calf.
     
  16. Murun

    Murun

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    Differently from most animals, human offspring needs care for an extended period of time - which does not fit well with the mother away soldiering, i.e. killing and getting killed. However, the Wise Ones will put a baby in foster care when the mother does not want to give up the spear (explained in TDR?). Men can have both? Well, they are out hunting and fighting, and can sometimes come home to wife and children. Not bad, but not the same ...

    Aviendha's task is somewhere described as "to make him know his blood", which I read as to make him care about the Aiel. And he does.

    Mother, let me take the opportunity to say thank you for giving the link to that awesome Neuxue / Lia - wow, how can anyone be as clever as that?
     
  17. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    I was thinking, after the fight between Moiraine and Lanfear, what happen with the stuff that Moiraine were planning sending to Tar Valon? Did they all burn up or?
     
  18. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    I suppose they just stayed there in Cairhien. I mean, I don't think anyone took charge of Kaderes crew after he died, and so they probably bolted the first chance they got.
     
  19. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    Still imbalanced, though. Women can be soldiers and hunters and still raise children and be married. Particularly be married.

    I know! She's awesome, and she's catching so many things on her first read that I didn't catch, ever. :lol


    Zadi, maybe Rand gathered it up for the school he starts?