2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    Chapter 47:
    -Nynaeve does a very good job at thinking "Wow, Elayne has such an acid tongue!" and then immediately turning around and saying something acerbic to Elayne. :rolleyes Not that Elayne's immune from blame, but we get less in her PoV here so the hypocrisy is a bit less obvious. :p
    -Because seriously, Elayne is just as nasty to Nynaeve. :rolleyes
    -Nynaeve still can't forgive Elayne for revealing everything to Thom and Juilin. :arch I realize that Elayne and Nynaeve didn't specifically ask for the two of them to follow them, but they still deserve to know what they're in for.
    -Cerandin talking about using s'redit in battle makes me think of oliphaunts. :p
    -Why is Elayne so certain that Cerandin will come with them? I mean, sure, they'd become friends and it would be useful for Elayne and Nynaeve to access to Seanchan knowledge (not to mention the Aes Sedai in Salidar), but she has to know Cerandin wouldn't want to leave her s'redit. Well, I suppose she doesn't have to know (considering she apparently doesn't), but it's terribly silly of her not to realize it. I guess it just comes down to Elayne being used to getting what she wants, but asking Cerandin to join them would be one thing, but Elayne is absolutely certain that of course she'll join them. She doesn't even ask and even tries to grab and her drag her with them. :blink :blink
    -And I quite like Birgitte's reaction of "Why are you trying to take away the backbone you just worked to give her?". As well as her reaction later when she realizes Elayne actually is the daughter heir. Since I can definitely feel Elayne's frustration when Birgitte doesn't believe her.

    Chapter 48:
    -The seals radiate evil shortly before they break, the Dark One forcing his way free.
    -
    :rolleyes :facepalm

    Chapter 49:
    -I really do feel bad for Neres here. :\ I sympathize with Nynaeve and Elayne wanting to get the refugees to safety and give them somewhere to sleep... but that's still not fair to Neres to lose all his cargo. :(
    -Is winteritch the WoT word for cabin fever?
    -Where is Areina from? With 'a short dark coat and voluminous trousers' like Birgitte?
    -Nynaeve is pretty ignorant of her faults sometimes. She thinks that a few days around herself would help Areina with her 'too free tongue'.
    -Elaida has started screening potential novices for 'proper attitudes'. :blink
    -Why is Elaida so obsessed with finding Davram Bashere?
    -Elayne and Nynaeve, while experimenting in tel'aran'rhiod, accidentally create a unicorn that chases them down and makes them swear off creating animals. :rofl
    -Rand is listening to Moiraine. In fact, she's the only one Rand listens to according to the Wise Ones. This makes me happy. :)
    -After the fact, Nynaeve and Elayne give Neres money for his cargo. And Elayne is more generous and, perhaps having spoken with Thom, agrees that Neres doesn't deserve to lose his cargo just because he's a smuggler.
    -And.... during the last page of their freedom before reaching Salidar, Nynaeve is certain the Salidar Aes Sedai will greet them with open arms.

    Chapter 50:
    -Nynaeve speculates what sort of wound stilling/gentling would leave.
    -And apparently forgets where she is enough that she embraces saidar and plans to experiment on Siuan/Leane right in front of all the Aes Sedai who've been grilling them... oops.
    -The cuendillar seals are quite fragile when they get fragile. I mean, they weren't being super careful with it so it probably got bumped around a bunch, but it was also wrapped inside a thick bundle of clothes. Sounds like they break almost instantly when the Dark One breaks them.
    -I really like Nynaeve's attitude in relation to Healing. "There was too much that Aes Sedai were willing to call hopeless and let go at that to suit her." As much as I'd love to be an Aes Sedai, this is one of the (many) problems with the Tower and it's really frustrating from a reader's perspective.
    -Nynaeve is very perceptive and picks up on a glance between Siuan and Leane that gives away that they're faking their bickering. (which is really over-the-top bickering, too!)
    -Bareth Bryne and Thom, both men sent away by Morgase, find common ground and go for a game of 'stones'. Thom is very well-known for being good at daes dae'mar.
    -:rolleyes I feel bad for Min that Siuan keeps pushing Bryne's dirty laundry off on her.
    -Min can tell that Nicola, Areina and Marigan are trouble.
    -Elayne thinks about Aviendha a lot while speculating who the third person she'll have to share Rand with is.
     
  2. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Citizen

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    Not even mean, stupid is the word. Damane are a resource and letting them get sick/frost bite for no reason is utterly brainless and those Sul'dan just need fired.

    I love that Asmodean is embarrassed at what they said.

    They do, Logain and Taim both have black hair.

    I think it does, Lan uses the Medallion in the last book to fight Damedred.

    TFH: 52

    Rand - The Aiel fully accept that Rand wants to go avenge Morgaise, The Aiel have an odd way to go about Ji'e'toh and other people being under it, they find it horrifyling when the Shaido do it, however they seem to think that Rand should be under Ji'e'toh. They tell him not to forget his obligation to the Aiel.

    Rand has not just an obligation to the Aiel, he has an obligation to the world to bring them through the last battle as best he can, Moraine wants to show Rand something at the docks and they go.

    Kadere – Dude should have told Lanfear what, not WHO Rand has been doing, it would have been better for your health.

    Rand – And now I remember why Kadere disappears from the plot, he got a bad case of “Getting flayed alive” Lanfear is not happy with Rand having sex with Aviendha, and proceeds to Swat Lan and Moraine like gnats..and puts Aviendha and Egwene out of commission. Rand, VERY STUPIDLY puts up a barrier to keep people out.

    You know what would have been a much better plan..put up a barrier to keep everyone but MAT out, The guy Immune to Lanfear's weaves who could have walked up to her and stabbed the crap out of..well no Mat wouldn't have done that because of the whole women thing.

    See, I don't mind Chivalry or avoiding hurting a Woman. In a fight with a woman, I likely would dodge until I saw an opening to put her out of commission in a non-harmful way, however with one of the Forsaken one of the servants of Satan, stabbification is 100% fair because she is has killed people, and is threatening to kill more, of course Rand gets stuck in the “I can't kill her because she is a girl” thing too, except well Rand, no you can't kill her because she is kicking your rump, and no you aren't going to lighting bolt her she will just cut that weave like she has done to every weave you have thrown at her. Sorry bud you lost this fight, and Moraine sacrifices herself to kill Lanfear.

    This..poses a big question, Moraine knew what was going to happen she had some idea of what was going on and set everything up before hand, Why wouldn't she get a KNIFE and just put it into Lanfear's back, I suppose Lanfear might notice it though.

    TFH: 53

    Moraine and Lanfear are gone.

    Boo Moraine is gone, for all the issues I have with her she did a reasonably good job.

    Yay Lanfear is gone...GOODBYE CREEPY PSYCHO STALKER.

    Lan and Rand react as one would expect to see Moraine gone.

    Note : The library has a misspelling in the first paragraph of the summary of this chapter.

    I don't think The Night's Watch suddenly decided to take a vacation to Cairhien >.>
    Lan leaves, his bond forcing him to do so to find his new Aes Sedai, and how lucky it is she is with the rebels, imagine Lan defending the White Tower against the Rebels. Remember how I said how absolutely badass Galad is? Lan is probably straight up the best swordsman in the setting.

    I wonder if Lan is a hero of the horn, he fits one of the Archetype that the horn seems to bind to it, Hawkwing is “The Paladin/King Arthur” Birgitte is “The archer” The horn grabs what seem to be Archtypes and Pantheon Gods (one of the heroes mentioned in book 2 was Amaterasu, a Shinto God if I recall properly)

    And Lan certainly fits the “Warrior King” archtype in a big way.

    *cough* City of Heroes taught me a good deal about Archetypical constructs in writing.

    Rand goes to one of the buildings to be alone and reads Moraine's letter to him, she knew what was coming and that breaks through and he begins to cry over the Aes Sedai, after chiding himself about not being able to mourn.

    Sulin comes in and talks with Rand, and Right here should have been the end of the entire Maidens vs Rand thing, they talk it out, I personally wouldn't have had Sulin done the whole “Give me my way or I kill myself” bit I would have just had her say “Then we won't get killed at all”

    TFH: 54

    Rand - he takes the Aiel to Camelyn through Skimming, and even after he explicitly tells them to “Be very careful, if you fall you are dead” someone still falls off, for a group of people who are capable of being completely prepared to fight even while relaxed the Aiel are terrible about following instructions, all they really had to do was stand still for an hour.

    Rahvin throws lightning and kills Mat, Aviendha and Asmodean. Who we all knew were not going to stay dead, since like Mat is a main character and all.

    Nyneave – Finally someone smacks Siuan around, and Nyneave both deserved a good smack upside the head for how they act sometimes, and they do both deserve the moment to vent. Though the whole “only men fight” thing is 100% sexist, and really truth be told better to punch someone who will forgive you than get angry enough to murder someone.

    And then Nyneave sees Moghedien, she shoves Siuan out of the dream and flees to a town from Book 3, and proceeds to be awesome as she uses an A'dam to capture the forsaken, and force her to help Nyneave protect Rand. So, getting turned into a 5 year old is the scariest thing a hero who has lived countless lives has ever encountered.

    TFH: 55

    Rand- Into the world of dreams we go, Lews Therin attempts to take Rand over. I wonder how that would work and if Rand would physically be transformed into Lews Therin if he were to have lost control here.

    Nynaeve – Moghedien is full and truly trapped by the World of Dreams now, she fully buys into the A'dam being around her neck including not being able to take it off, I would think someone who is that well versed in the Dream would be able to force themselves into not being affected without using the One Power.

    Rand feels weakened a bit, and Nynaeve attempts to strike at the forsaken, I wonder why she did not have Moghedien use balefire here, but Rand takes care of it and Nukes Rahvin hard enough to warp the pattern enough to restore Mat, Asmodean and Aviendha.

    Nynaeve heals Rand, and Rand gives her Lan's message. Which Nynaeve promptly and properly ignores, I wonder if Rand were to come into the dream with a Wise one or Egwene, or even Perrin when they are fully trained in the workings if they could heal the wound that way.

    TFH: 56

    Hello Davram! You are another under-rated character in my opinion, He follows Rand because he is a true believer, even to the point of not being too angry about Rand's deceleration that Men who can channel are to be given amnesty in Camelyn.

    Not happy about the where of the decision to make the Black Tower, though in the Long Run, if Elayne and Logain end up finding some peaceful accord, Andor could end up being the most powerful single nation on the planet, since in the next age, Andor has Canons, Connections to the Aiel, Connections to the White Tower, has control of Cairhien, and is home to the Asha'man. Rand did seem to almost set up his home kingdom to subsume the rest of the Wetlands after the Dragon's Peace, oh and Rand set up universities for Invention in 2/3 of the cities that Elayne ends up in control of.

    Amodean gets murdered while looking for some wine, the murderer ends up being Shemmhiarge who is in Camelyn for what reason? Is here a specific reason she was there?

    Morgaise ends up heading towards Amacidia, I don't know why she would at all do this really, Sure there are only a few countries in the Wetlands that are stable, however The Whitecloaks are certainly not Friendly to her, honestly I think The borderlands would have been the best option. Generally Stable, not embroiled in the Game of Houses and friendly enough that Bashere could set up outsdie of Camelyn and not be looked sideways at.
     
  3. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    :rofl
     
  4. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    And I thought it was Graendal who liked Asmodean? :scratch
     
  5. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    And I thought it was Graendal who liked Asmodean? :scratch

    Sorry for the multiple posts, I'm posting from my phone and it is being glitchy. :\
     
  6. Murun

    Murun

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    @ Maibella Rhoiden:

    Yes, it was Graendal who killed Asmodean. The Question remained open for a long time, then ToM came along with the implication in the text and a flat-out statement in the glossary.
    At least she was a likely perpetrator because she was part of the plot by Lanfear, Rahvin and Sammael to bait Rand into an attack (just not quite there and then). Perhaps she was stealthily checking on the outcome and just took the opportunity.

    @Ryu Shadowborn:
    Well, she tries ... Nynaeve holds her with a mixture of will power and torture.
    And then Moghedien, quite in character, stops and hopes to trick her way out later.

    There was a lot of delightful foreshadowing of this - we knew Moghedien would not leave Nyn alone, we knew Elayne's Study of the a'dam would be useful somehow, there was this overconfident sentence "She would be on the same ship to know" (where else would she be?), Marighan having odd ideas about herbs ... and now it all explodes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  7. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    I think that Mat had dice rolling in his head in earlier books, I think either in Tear or Camelyn? I can't remember which town now. But it's where he use the staff to wack darkfriends/robbers away from him.
     
  8. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    That was in TarValon, when he first experienced his luck as well Imz.. I don't know what this is exactly, but since it predates Rhuidean I don't think it comes from the Eelfinn...
     
  9. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    I thought her hair was bright bright brassy red. :blink Cuz I always pictured her with dark brown or black hair to begin with.
     
  10. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    Oh, ok! That would make more sense at least.
     
  11. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    That's usually the color authors mean when they say not made in nature. :lol Jordan was a product of his times, it seems. :lol
     
  12. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    :facepalm I can't believe I never made that connection. I realize she's not mentioned a lot, but she's even holding a sword of the sun. (Yes, Amaterasu is a sun goddess in Japanese mythology)

    Chapter 51:
    -Rand notices something in Moiraine's voice when she mentions Lanfear's name (in relation to who could be with Rahvin in Caemlyn). He thinks she's worried that Rand might join Lanfear. But Moiraine has just heard news of Morgase recently, signaling to her that she'll have to fight Lanfear soon.
    -Moiraine is clearly saying goodbye to everyone this chapter. She says "You will do well" to Rand multiple times (and in the letter she writes him). Rand also notes that she looks much more 'Aes Sedai' that normal.
    -Moiraine does what she can to ensure Rand will do well after she leaves. She tells Egwene and Aviendha to make sure they tell Rand what he must hear rather than what he wants to hear. Egwene's confused because Moiraine already does that.
    -Mat's luck saves him from Melindhra's dagger. The dagger hits his medallion at just the right angle.
    -Melindhra mentions the 'Great Lord's own luck', the only thing that gives Mat a hint as to why she tried to kill him. Well, that and the golden bees on her dagger. Interesting that she has a dagger from Illian, rather than just using her Aiel spears. Is this part of Sammael's trying to make it obvious who's going after Rand?
    -Mat thinks that, for the first time, one of the Forsaken knows who he is. Actually, they've known for quite awhile at this point.

    Chapter 52:
    -Mat's talking to Aviendha about going to Camelyn and he says "I just hope I get the bloody pat on the head instead of the bloody flower." What is he talking about? :blink What flower? Rand doesn't know what he means either
    -Moiraine smiles warmly at Mat and gives him advice about trusting the Pattern. Mat is worried. :p Why is an Aes Sedai paying attention to me and giving me advice? D:
    -After meeting with Rand, Moiraine went to the wagons and told Kadere to take the canvas off the doorframe ter'angreal.
    -Kadere calls the Spine of the World the 'Spine of the Wall'. Is this a typo? I've noticed quite a few typos recently in this book. (ebook version)
    -Kadere thinks that if he can just reach Natael (who stands so high among Darkfriends!) then he'll have an ally! :D Though really, Natael would be the last person to want to work with Kadere now. :p
    -Kadere makes the mistake of telling Lanfear about Aviendha... if only Moiraine had seen what caused the battle in the first place. Would have been easy enough to prevent. :\
    -Even packed in wool in casks, the seals still emit evil.
    -Is the angreal important for things at the docks to turn out as they're supposed to? Moiraine admits to placing it on the wagon. Is that just to lure her to the wagon so Moiraine can push her through the ter'angreal?
    -Rand's frustrating refusal to kill women is really ramping up here. :rolleyes Come on, Rand, she's one of the Forsaken and she's trying to kill you and Aviendha. (and Egwene) If there's any time when murder is ok, it's now. :| Whether he could actually kill her or not, it's ridiculous that he refuses to do it. Killing the Forsaken would be a huge boon to the Last Battle! He at least seems to think he'd be capable of killing her with the amount of the Power remaining to him. (that's not being used to fend her off)

    Chapter 53:
    -Why does the twisted doorframe ter'angreal catch on fire and melt so spectacularly? Is it because of them both holding/using the Power while falling through? Is it the angreal going through?
    -Moiraine refuses to tell Rand in the letter how she knew what was going to happen at the docks. She says 'it need not trouble you how; some secrets belong to others, and I will not betray them'. Is this just her not wanting to reveal to Rand what Wise Ones see in Rhuidean?
    -Moiraine references 'one small thing' she knows about which will happen in the world after the battle at the docks. She doesn't tell Rand; that's for Thom's letter.
    -Moiraine references 'a small matter' that she once told Thom about which she must make clear for his peace of mind... what is she talking about? I've read through Thom's letter and still don't know what she's talking about. :\
    -Moiraine mentions 2 Black Ajah when telling Rand not to trust Aes Sedai. Does she know they're Black Ajah? Rand's right that it's weird she mentions Alviarin instead of Elaida. Though that might just be because of the letter she sent Rand.

    Chapter 54:
    -The Wise Ones are talking to Aviendha and Bair says "Much depends on you both. It would be easier if you had succeeded by now." What are they talking about? I mean, after that it sounds like Amys is about to tell Bair and the others about Aviendha and Rand having sex, but why does so much depend on that?
    -Mat, Asmodean and Aviendha die. Interesting how vital it was for Mat to 'die' here in order for Olver to blow the Horn of Valere at the end. I remember freaking out when I first read the book and didn't know they'd be alive again later. Two main characters dead in one swoop.
    -Siuan and Nynaeve start fighting in the street in tel'aran'rhiod. :lol Nynaeve has certainly never claimed to be an expert at the World of Dreams and it's obvious here. :p There's no need to fight back physically if someone attacks you in tel'aran'rhiod.
    -Nynaeve and Elayne's practice imagining each other as just another part of tel'aran'rhiod pays off when Nynaeve is able to use it to collar Moghedien.
    -Nynaeve thinks that she wasn't sure if the a'dam really was a link like Elayne said it was, but that she had hoped it. And then, when she can feel the Source through Moghedien, sees this as evidence that Elayne was right about it being a link. We of course know that it is a link. But how is that proof? I mean, Nynaeve imagined it being a link so it was. That's how tel'aran'rhiod works. If she imagines an a'dam as not being a link then it won't be. :cheese Or is the One Power in tel'aran'rhiod different? I suppose it might be. Otherwise someone who can't channel can just imagine that they can channel in tel'aran'rhiod and then suddenly will be able to. (though maybe not... since they won't know what it feels like to Channel so won't be able to imagine it?) Though maybe the a'dam created in tel'aran'rhiod is just a real a'dam, regardless of whether Nynaeve knows everything it can do. She imagined an a'dam and it made an a'dam with all of its properties. She's able to tell Moghedien's telling the truth through the link even though Nynaeve apparently didn't know a'dams could do that.
    I'm just rambling. :p
    -It's interesting that Nynaeve is able to hold Moghedien with the a'dam in the World of Dreams. Moghedien should have better control over tel'aran'rhiod than Nynaeve does, but Nynaeve's control over the a'dam is still able to stop Moghedien from shaping tel'aran'rhiod.
    -Birgitte notes that using the dream ter'angreal makes it seem like she's still bound to tel'aran'rhiod. Poor Birgitte. :(
    -If Nynaeve had run, would it have worked to wake up and rip the ter'angreal away from Birgitte so she wakes up? I mean, obviously capturing Moghedien is a much better outcome and, if Birgitte and Nynaeve simply left tel'aran'rhiod, Moghedien would still be out there. Just wondering if it would have worked since Nynaeve feels so guilty that she almost thought of fleeing.
    -Moghedien tells them that Sammael is trying to draw Rand to him where Lanfear, Rahvin and Graendal will be waiting. Luckily, Lanfear is gone and Rahvin soon will be.
    -Birgitte respects Nynaeve again. :)
    -It's also good that Nynaeve and Elayne did all their tel'aran'rhiod experimenting since Nynaeve now knows what the Royal Palace in Caemlyn looks like well enough to go there in tel'aran'rhiod.
     
  13. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    About Mat and the flower, I think he's thinking about when he killed Melindhra, his knife made it looks like a flower blooming. So?

    And Mat actually died in Rhuidan right? Rand made him come back alive after the hanging. So I think that actually the bond to the horn were broken there. Since balefire "undo" stuff that have been made, so I don't think that Mat dying in Camelyn broke the bond, because it was already broken... Am I thinking right? :D
     
  14. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    Hmm, that's true, I guess he does kinda die twice. :lol
     
  15. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    No, I seem to remember that Mat thinks that it was his hanging in Rhuidean that broke the bond, but Hawkwing (or some other Hero :look) specifically says, "No, it was another time, that you don't even remember, and the Dragon brought you back"
     
  16. Wil Cambrae

    Wil Cambrae Sparkle Chief Gaidin

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    Mat dies three times, and each time Rand is responsible for his return. Once he revived Mat after his hanging, one with balefire saving him from the darkhounds and twice with balefire after he was struck by lightning :lookI think Mat owes Rand a beer or two, eh?
     
  17. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    I forgot about the Darkhounds incident!

    But yes, three times is the charm ;)
     
  18. Murun

    Murun

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 50-54

    Some details for discussion:

    - Did Galad really "start a war"?
    Technically perhaps, just as it is said that Thom (and indirectly Rand) started the civil war in Caiheirin. But that view neglects (1) that what we are shown is not a war (would have to be between Samarans and Dragonsworn against Whitecloaks), but a riot of Samarans (and perhaps Dragonsworn) against other Samarans. (2) and given this, it overlooks all the social tensions that prepared the explosion. Riots are the flip side of oppression and social injustice - sometimes they take to innocent scapegoats, but most of the time they are right on target. A good case can be made for Masema being a catalyst ("all bounds broken"), but then the social tension and the suffering it caused was there even before him.
    And was Nynaeve wrong to go into Samara? No. She asked for help from the powers to be - i.e. Masema - and she brought it off well - not an easy task. Meeting Galad on the way back definitively was bad luck - but what else was she going to do with him except telling him "we need to get outta here?"

    - Melidhra, I'm still mourning her, she was so good for Mat (and we know what happens to darkfriends that fail?). Her attack connects back to Ch. 33, when Rahvin says "If need be, one close to him will die, plainly at your [Sammael's] order." So Rahvin had instructed her and had included the keyword "Caemlyn" in his instructions.

    - Rand and the Aiel:
    Ch. 46, Aviendha speaking. "A grim set of beliefs, that." Yes, it is.
    Just these words return - somewhat mysteriously - in AMoL Ch. 6., spoken by Rand. He remembers Aviendha's words well, and he cares, and the Aiel will once more have to change, be no more like they were before.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
  19. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Mother Amyrlin Seat

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    Straight notes today, and hopefully I'll get to comment on everyone's tomorrow.

    Chapter 40
    • The Whitecloaks know of Salidar.
    • Galad means to send Elayne and Nynaeve to Caemlyn.
    Chapter 41
    • Weiramon is brave, but stupid and unwilling to listen about numbers of Aiel.
    • Egwene did hesitate to use the Power as a weapon.
    • Asmodean put dragons on Couladin -- I'd thought Lanfear had done that.
    chapter 42
    • Mat gets sucked into battle planning.
    • Battle is gambling intensified and with much further-spread consequences, for winning or losing.
    • Rand: "Sometimes he did understand and wished he did not, because he knew where that understanding came from." So, Lews Therin is drifinting in to Rand. Some of LTT's knowledge becomes Rand's -- almost like Mat's memories.
    Chapter 43
    • A very human view of Moiraine: "She is fretting in her tent. She cannot possibly Heal even all of the worst hurt today." She's worrying over her limitations, and the wounded.
    • The Maidens get around Rand trying to separate them from him by forcing him to go where they are -- the tower.
    • Mat keeps getting funneled back to Rand.
    • Melindra: "Far Dareis Mai above all" -- including the Dark One?
    • Talmanes pulls Mat in the rest of the way. He respects Mat, even having never met him. He takes Mat's measure in the few minutes before battel.
    • Mat leads men into battle and he's completely unarmored. That will only add to his legend.
    Chapter 45
    • Talmanes: "until yesterday I have followed men of other lands because I must. You I will follow because I want to."
    • The Tairens in Cairien offered Rand the city and declared loyalty to him.
    • Dobraine & Clavare (of Cairhien) want to offer Rand the Throne.
    Chapter 46
    • Peven's story is so tragic -- how many others have the same story? He's steadfast in the belief that he will see vengeance if he stays with Rand.
    • siswai'aman -- gaishain are allowed to wear the same headband as non-gaishain.
    • Rand doesn't trust Shaido gaishain. The Shaido have laready broken so many customs.
    • Every last bareheaded gaishain wore the headband. Significant?
    • Rand (Lord Dragon) brought hope to Cairhien.
    Chapter 47
    • Here it specifically says Nynaeve's hair was a brassy red.
    • Egwene has learned to visit dreams.
    • Nynaeve has changed drastically: "Somehow, [...] protecting Rand and Egwene and Mat and Perrin from Aes Sedai had become helping them survive, and finally, without her quite realizing when or how, even that goal had been submerged in other needs. Entering the White Tower to learn ho better to pull down Moiraine had become a burning desire to learn how to Heal. Even her hatred for Aes Sedai meddling in people's lives no w coexisted with her desire to become one."
    • Galad seems totally unphased by having started a war to secure the ship.
    • Luca "proposed" to Nynaeve -- it wasn't actually marriage, but she took it to mean that. :p
    • Birgitte doesn't know Elayne is actually the Daughter Heir.
    Chapter 49
    • Nynaeve's "I'm perfect, they're the problem" attitude is annoying.
    • I wonder why Neres hates women.
    • Elayne channeled the wind without considering the consequences, either of someone feeling it, or of what changing the weather could lead to.
    • Elayne and her candies. :lol
    • An accurate view of depression, and those who commit suicide: "a jug-eared fellow who had seemed the most enthusiastic in a sad lot had just vanished..."
    • Here we meet Nicola, and Marigan (who's Moghedian, right?).
    • To be continued...
     
  20. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai TVT Editor Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven TO THE END

    "Weiramon is brave, but stupid and unwilling to listen about numbers of Aiel."

    I disagree Mother. I see him as arrogant and stupid, not brave. :\