2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

See, I would argue it would not be Rand handing her the Throne, as he never made a claim to it. Rand was doing his Duty as the dragon reborn and stopping the forsaken and setting right what has gone wrong in the world due to the dark one's minions, which is in a way the point of his existence, as his Tav'eren warping is a direct counteraction to the dark one warping the pattern.
Whether Rand claimed it the throne or not, it would still look like he was giving her the throne, as though Elayne doesn't have the strength or the legitimate claim to it herself. Had, say, Moiraine done the same thing, it could have been seen as the Tower handing over the throne. Had a beggar off the street, male or female, done it, I'd argue that then it wouldn't matter, because beggars don't generally have power. But anyone with power, "giving" Elayne the throne, would only weaken Elayne's position.

So, Egwene goes to Moraine with the information about the tower and discovers she is ease dropping on Rand, or at least Egwene thinks she is, I don't think she really is though? Wouldn't she know of Asmodean if she was?

Why wouldn't Moraine let him know that she approves of it in some sly way, she is certainly smart enough for it.
Moiraine is definitely eavesdropping. That's what her stone is for, and that was one of her wilder tricks from before she started learning at the Tower. She needs Rand to trust her, and telling him that she's been eavesdropping would be one of the fastest ways to get him to push her away. Or order her not to do it, which she'd have to follow. And so she probably does know about Asmodean. And she probably knows of the limitations Lanfear placed on him.

However I do think that Elyane is very much over-reacting here, I doubt that Galad would have truly turned them in, especially since the Accepted are quite set on leaving Amadicia anyways.
Galad would either have delivered them to Caemlyn, or turned them in. Those are two "right" things to do.

Also S'redit just gives me images of a giant monster made of Redit boards.
:laugh:

Of course if Alviarin was interested in the good of everyone, she would balefire Fain, then stab herself with the dagger.
:laugh:

he Maidens are 100% right here, they are the elite guard of He who comes with the dawn, do you know what that means? It means you don't get to run into combat at every single random opportunity.
Yes, if Rand didn't hold them back just because they're women.
 

Megana Vallentin

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

I was stuck on several long flights during my travels and might have finished book 5... :look: I'll try to chime in here and there, and go find something else to read until y'all hit book 6. :giggle

Regarding Egwene gaining confidence, at the time I thought it was just the Aiel way of doing things influencing her, but in hindsight I can really see how she's coming into her own in a way that will prepare her to be Amyrlin.

And also (jumping ahead a bit), even the first time the Salidar Aes Sedai learn that Nynaeve and Elayne have a way to get in contact with Egwene, there's some mysterious glances right then and there, like it was an idea they'd already been considering somehow.
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

I often wondered, what made them choose Egwene? I mean yes, I see the logic in choosing someone they thought would be easy to manipulate, but why her in particular? Were there no other Accepted they could pick?
 

Imzadi Hopewind

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

They wanted to pick someone who wasn't present when the splitting happen. Egwene wasn't there at all... And neither an Aes Sedai.
 

Wil Cambrae

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

Also she was at one time Rand's intended :look:
Not to mention her strength in the One Power.
 

Ealandrelle Melyma

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

Having just listened to the part of The Gathering Storm where Egwene muses on why she was chosen, one of the other reasons is that she was someone they could all agree on. Whatever the personal motivation of each person who pushed her into it (easy to manipulate, strength in the Power, ties to the Dragon Reborn etc), she was also something of a wild card. Neither Romanda or Lelaine would've stood for either of them, and there would've been issues with Sheriam or any of that coterie as well.
 
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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

Ch. 29 - Eianrod, Kadere POV, and Kadere gets a mysterious message from an Aiel darkfriend.

I always find darkfriends puzzling - I mean, what do they really hope for, and are there any short-term benefits for them or is there just the fervent hope for the Day of Return and the world turned upside down? Besides, in any social movement there is a dialectic, a balance between cooperation and competition, otherwise it couldn't work, and with them, this dialectic seems incredibly skewed.
Now Aiel darkfriends - yes, there are such, not just poor Melindhra, we'll have more evidence in TPoD, someone setting Katherine Alruddin free - they exist under even harsher constraints than Wetlander ones. How do they get in contact with darkfriends in the first place, isolated as they are in the Threefold Land, how do they keep hidden in that kind of society which has rather limited concept of privacy, what is their motivation in a fairly egalitarian society, how do they keep the faith (over generations, it must be) in a hostile environment?

- Kadere got instructions from Lanfear in his dreams; part of it must be to spy on Rand and Natael / Asmodean, which he delegated to Isendre. And of course, this is absurd on several levels, but Kadere has no idea of that.

- Isendre comes to report. Yes, she has sex with Natael (when do they find time for this?), but he doesn't spill any secrets. And just this day, one more attempt to get to Rand failed miserably, the Maidens caught her, shaved her bald, and beat her with nettles. And threatened her to hand her over to Aviendha, and told her "what Avi would do", umh. Because ...
"Al'Thor has been bedding her since Rhuidean ... She spends every night with him. The Maidens think she'll marry him."
Dangerous news for Aviendha, as we'll see. We have a look at her through Kadere's eyes - "a beautiful woman in spite of her fierce eyes, full-breasted compared to most Maidens" - ouch, I never put that detail in my picture of her, after all, it's kind of curse some of the time, but so be it.

- Kadere judges Isendre no longer useful and a security risk besides, so he kills her. And like every time he kills a woman, he is reminded of his first murder, his sister, who might have given him away. Glad to see the last of him soon.


Ch. 30, Eianrod, Rand POV, and while he seems to be relaxing a bit for once, he's got a lot to worry about:

- Moiraine's attempts to teach him as much as she can in the short time she knows she has left

- the weather (and no idea what to do about it)

- information from Lews Therin's memory seeping through

- ta'veren effects (for which he feels responsible)

News comes from Cairhien, the city is under siege and barely holds out. Besides, it is occupied by Tairens, who seem to have the upper hand there. Cairhiens are not pleased with that but accept it for the time being.
Rhuarc says it will take seven days to reach the city, which the Wetlanders see as impossible because they don't know how fast Aiel can move. (It more or less seems to be the same distance between the Shaido and the other clans as there was when hey started out.)
And yes, one of the Tairens takes the opportunity to turn that into a bet. When Rand is reluctant to take it, Sulin explains that he is entitled to part of the loot from Tear and drops the keyword "taxes", which of course Rand knows nothing about (not a 2 Rivers thing), but it makes him think of Elayne. Oh.
Rand sends the message of help coming back to Cairhien, and also sends out scouts (pointedly not Maidens). And now he wants to eat and sleep ...


Ch. 32/33, Rand POV

... which is not going to happen. Because, no matter what funny measures Rand took to avoid her, Aviendha is there, naked, just washing herself. Because no sweat tent available, and she didn't expect him back so soon. None too convincing reasons, but valid for her.
And she is maximally embarrassed -

WHY? All the tension resulting from her knowledge from the rings that they would fall in love, and her not liking to be forced into something. And Rand's clumsy attempts to be nice to her. And her obligation towards Elayne. And she feels like he could think she had presented herself on purpose.

- and opens a gateway by instinct to a maximally distant destination, and runs off. Into a snow storm.

Well, those instinctive uses of the Power pose a problem; we've had another example in Nyanaeve's use of balefire in TDR. (And of course with Rand, but these can be explained by Lews Therin's memories.) And then, her choice of destination - may I put it in pseudocode? SRC FOR land ORDER BY distance FROM here (coordinates) MAX to MIN GIVE coordinates for first result for Travelling. Seems the Pattern is a incredibly powerful computer.

Rand makes the gateway stay open (how? must be those old memories) and follows. Rescues her from drowning and freezing, builds a shelter, and when Avi comes to, she decides "I will run no more". They sleep with each other. Courtship for superheroes.
Good for them? Certainly. But it also creates new problems, as Rand proposes marriage, and they argue about whose customs must be followed. Not to forget Avi's toh to Elayne, which makes her say "This won't happen again."
And Rand is still awkward and blushes. Oh.
"I have heard that men turn lazy after ..." :D - not entirely false ... so that was her first time too. But they have things to do on the other side of the world.

First look out of the shelter shows a raken. So they are in Seanchan and would better not meet the natives. But there is a patrol waiting for them right at the blocked gateway (which now looks different, camouflaged), they have been alerted by Aviendha's channeling. (Close surveillance they have, those Seanchan ... my, my ...)
Avi takes care of the damane (and feels the ability in the sul'dam), she's learned how to split weaves from Egwene. (Nice to hear that those two share information on channeling.) Rand incapacitates the rest, now just get going? No.
Rand wants to free the damane by taking off the collar by hand - questionable idea, worse execution, it just results in a painful shock for both Rand and the women. Avi - well, cold, stiff fingers - can't open the collars either.
Meanwhile Rand is being recognized - some people in the group were in Falme - and one lies about Rand being well treated if he surrenders, but he knows (HOW? Who told him?) that men who can channel are just killed by the Seanchan.
And the gateway is shrinking, so they give up their attempts and jump back to Eianrod. As Rand hasn't tied off his weave, some soldier sends a spear after them, which is cut off by the closing gateway. Scepter, well. - Aviendha has tied off the shields on the damane "as close as she could" - they're enemies, after all. And in the midst of it, she even found time for a little spark of jealousy - "I thought big eyes and a round bosom had caught your eye".
Asmodean had hid the gateway (so much, so good, even though Rand is angry about it), but a gai'shin came in (happens to be Avi's sister Niella) and promptly told the Maidens that Rand and Avi had taken some time out together. No privacy to be had, and of course the Maidens were pleased. And Aviendha is angry and goes off in search of her sister, Rand shouts at Asmodean and demands more teaching.
 
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Imzadi Hopewind

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

Meanwhile Rand is being recognized - some people in the group were in Falme - and one lies about Rand being well treated if he surrenders, but he knows (HOW? Who told him?) that men who can channel are just killed by the Seanchan.

Not sure, but I think that the damene said that they felt one woman, but it's something more? :cheeseeni:
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

Chapter 19

  • Ore and metal are more profitable than tabac and wool, so Morgase (and previous rulers) chose to concentrate on keeping the mountains in the realm rather than the Two Rivers.
  • Even if they (Rand, Morgase, et al) explained that Morgase was Compelled to exile her allies by Rahvin, the words still came from her mouth.
  • Morgase has actual reasons for thinking Taringail and Thom were poor choices in lovers/partners. But for Brynne, it's just "treason." Very vague, and still believing the Compulsion that Rahvin gave her about Brynne.
  • Poor stupid Accepted who didn't do as she was supposed to when Fain broke into the storeroom.
  • Elaida refuses to believe in the Black Ajah. :rolleyes
  • Fain didn't know Alviarin is Black Ajah.

Chapter 20

  • Moiraine is desperately trying to pass knowledge to Rand.

Chapter 21

  • So, does Melindhra really like Mat? Is she staying close to him because she likes him rather than because she's been ordered to?
  • I like the Aiel style of wedding.
  • We finally learn what it means to make a man sing. :laugh: Of course, it's completely humiliating, because Aiel don't sing except going into battle, so to be forced to sing for the Maidens' amusement is a little cruel.

Chapter 22

  • Mat's memories span a specific period of time, from the founding of the Ten Nations to -- er, I've forgotten. :look:
  • Mat may go through a lot of women, and "cuddle" and "kiss" a lot of them, but he always respects their boundaries, and them saying no. "He liked giving things to pretty women, even if all he got in return was a smile. He never expected more. If a woman did not enjoy a kiss and a cuddle as much as he did, what was the point?" I think this is a really important point to keep in mind about Mat, with regards to his experience with Tylin later. Mat never forces a woman, and he never chases where a woman has said no. He genuinely likes women, and he respects them, and he respects boundaries and doesn't cross lines. A woman says no? He finds one who will enjoy him chasing her instead. No big deal. Tylin, in contrast, threatens Mat, humiliates him, and forces him, despite Mat saying no. More on that when we get to Tylin. :look:
  • Mat had had some of the memories before the 'finns.
  • Rand recognizes that he could make Moiraine tell him what he wants, but "he would not do that to someone who was trying to help him."

Chapter 23

  • The Wise Ones back Rand's plan of not allowing the Aiel to take food or murder etc. He has to be harder than the chiefs, who have to be harder than the Aiel.
  • Aiel are still falling to the bleakness.
  • Aviendha still balks at what she knows is her destiny -- Rand.

Chapter 24

  • Is this the first time we learn what the Nine Moons is?

Chapter 25

  • Egwene: "Nynaeve said I should remind him he's only a man..." Even this early, the people around Rand know they have to remind him of his humanity.
  • Elayne: "Oh Egwene, you will be Amyrlin Seat one day, when I am Queen of Andor." Yep. Except sooner than expected, on both counts.
  • It's been a year and a half (plus) since they left the Two Rivers.
  • Moghedian's hatred of Birgitte goes back to the Age of Legends.
 

Kassina Tendar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

As usual, I'm up on my reading but behind on my notes. Especially since my wrist has been sore lately. I'll try to get it all typed up soon. :) I've been enjoying reading everyone else's notes, though.

Ryu said:
Also Alviarin is apparently not up on Dark friend goings on, since she lets “The Renegade” free when in reality she should have balefired him in the face for the good of everyone.
Yeah, I thought that as well. I does make sense. I mean, Darkfriends in the Tower don't even know all the other Darkfriends in the Tower and Fain is... unique and a bit of a wild card so it makes sense that his existence isn't well-known among Darkfriends.
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

Chapter 26
Logaine was destined for glory such as few men had dreamed of.
"Min did not think there was anything else for Suian." The White Tower and the Dragon Reborn were the whole of Suian's life, and she would hold to them even if she had to lie to herself.
Sheriam: Rays of silver and blue and a soft golden light
Carlinya: a tattoo of a raven -- perhaps the Deathwatch Guard (is that what they're called?)

Chapter 27
Suian is concentrating so hard on the Aes Sedai that she has no attention to spare for the trick of ignoring heat, and so she's sweating.
Does Suian really think Egwene will be "guided"?
Kiruan and Bera -- are they Black?
Strong rumor says that Myrelle married her 3 Warders.

Chapter 28
Bryne sees Carlinya and Beonin as ambitious.
He agreed far faster than the women expected.
He also ensures they're absolutely going to take down Elaida. No quitting now.
 

Leira Galene

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

Finally started FoH a couple days ago... :look: Hopefully I'll catch up soon.
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

:joy
 

Kassina Tendar

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 14-20

Part 1 of my catching up on notes:

Chapter 14:
-Nynaeve is always so indignant when anyone calls her stubborn. You can really see how much Egwene has learned with the Wise Ones, though they're still careful not to let it get to her head.

Chapter 15:
-Nynaeve thinks that appearing in the study of the Mistress of Novices is very safe in tel'aran'rhiod since why would any novice dream herself there? She is right that it's pretty safe, since Sheriam doesn't have access to a dream ter'angreal, but it's still a little scary having her thinking how safe Sheriam's study is.
-Nynaeve sees Elaida briefly in tel'aran'rhiod and kinda thinks it's funny that she's dreaming herself as Amyrlin, not realizing that she actually is. "It will snow in Tear before it ever rises that high." Interestng that it apparently never snows in Tear.
-Nynaeve couldn't dream herself directly to the Amyrlin's study since the decor has changed too much.
-No word from any Ajah's eyes-and-ears for the past three weeks... so the lady who tried to poison Elayne and Nynaeve didn't send her pigeon to the Tower.
Nynaeve glowered at her, opening her mouth to say that she could too keep her temper and she would smack Egwene's ears if she thought differently
:rofl

Chapter 16:
-Elayne has heard of strawberries, but has never tried them, but Nynaeve hasn't even heard of them before.
-Nynaeve can't believe that Gawyn would support Elaida.

Chapter 17:
-"a handful of boys playing some game that seemed to involve hitting each other with a beanbag." :laugh:
-Aludra! :D
-Nynaeve is skeptical that Aludra's an Illuminator, but thinks it might be true since she sounds like she's from Tarabon. I wonder how many of the people in the (former) Cairhien chapter house were originally from Tarabon since that's where the Illuminators are based.
-Cerandin is happy to let Luca believe she's from Shara since that's better for her than people knowing she's Seanchan. (luckily for her most people can't recognize Seanchan animals or a Seanchan accent)
-Cerandin is convinced Elayne is a High Lady (presumably based on her comportment) and the Seanchan attitude toward Lords and Ladies applies to non-Seanchan Lords and Ladies as well.

Chapter 18:
-Despite having taught herself to channel some before learning at the Tower, Moghedien doesn't consider herself a Wilder and despises them on principle.

Chapter 19:
-As usual in this series, rumor distorts facts. Tallanvor tells Morgase of rebellion in the Two Rivers. He has the basic details correct, but he assumes that the raising of the Manetheren banner is meant as a symbol of rebellion against Andor. He mentions nothing about trollocs.
-Morgase admits that she only owns the Two Rivers on a map and even compares it to 'places that were hers in fact'.
-When Thom vanished, Morgase had been ready to rescind the arrest order upon his return, but he ruined it by yelling at her and saying things she couldn't forgive. Presumably he was angry over her issuing an arrest warrent for him when he was just trying to help his nephew.
-More vague references to what Gareth Bryne did to make Morgase banish him. Even outside of Gaebril's influence she still thinks that he turned out to be a treasonous fool. I wonder what he said to make her so angry.
-Fain is from Lugard (at least, he thinks that 'in a way it was his native city'... not sure what that means :cheeseeni:) and he slips into a Lugard accent sometimes.

Chapter 20:
-Rand doesn't know the concept of air getting thinner the higher up you go and, though he's heard of people who tried to scale tall mountains being unable to breathe, he thinks it's because of fear.
-Few people know the ancient symbol of Aes Sedai... which is interesting since they know the Flame of Tar Valon and the Dragon's Fang and it's just a combination of the two. :cheeseeni:

Chapter 21:
-We finally learn what 'teaching a man to sing' means.
-The Wise Ones teach not using the Power too often or relying on it for daily tasks.
-Aviendha (and Bair) is willing to justify holding a sword as long as it's wrapped in cloth.
-Rand slices up one of the silk cushions in his tent. :facepalm I realize it's technically his cushion, but it's still no wonder that it backfired. I just thought it was rude to slice up the Aiel's pillow, though Aviendha later reveals that she took it as him taunting her by using the sword right in front of her.
-Rand doesn't like the idea of eating lizard.

At times she seemed to take great pleasure in discomfiting him. Had he been trying to pretend that he was Aiel, he would have thought she was trying to prove he was not.
Reminded me of some times when I was in Japan and I felt like sometimes people would try to go out of their way to prove I wasn't Japanese. :p

-I usually really like Aiel customs, but it's really weird that Melaine didn't tell Bael about his own wedding until like right before it happened. :brown-blink: And that it seems like Dorindha's approval was more importantthan Bael's. (though I'm sure Bael could've said no if he wanted)
-The different meanings of the different flowers in aiel wedding wreaths amuse me. :p You ask a guy to marry you by giving him a wreath that says "Yup, I know I'm prickly and I mean to stay that way!" :laugh:
-Is Rand not familiar with snow?? He makes a comment about a Kandori pattern called 'snowflakes'.
-Rand is really concerned about who gave Aviendha her necklace. He doesn't realize it was just Egwene. Nothing to worry about.
-I kinda like the Aiel version of 'goodnight'. "Sleep well and wake."
 

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

Chapter 22:
-The human Darkfriends who attack the Aiel camps are shouting "Sammael and the Golden Bees!", clearly linking Sammael with Illian. Was that the main goal of the attack? To send Rand against Sammael?

Chapter 23:
-Moiraine is staying close to the twisted door ter'angreal and Egwene has noticed, but doesn't know why. (she just notices that Moiraine is sticking by one wagon in particular)

Chapter 25:
"Oh, Egwene, you will be Amyrlin Seat on day, when I am Queen of Andor."
"If there is a Tower then," Egwene said soberly
Elayne is right about that, but, as has been said, it's much sooner than she probably expects. And Egwene's comment about 'if there is a Tower' is interesting, too, since she's elected as a 2nd Amyrlin outside the Tower itself.
-Elayne thinks that Nynaeve and Elayne know enough about tel'aran'rhiod to be 'perfectly safe' there now even as her clothing changes on her. Despite their talk about understanding the dangers of tel'aran'rhiod, they do tend to underestimate it.
-Egwene gives Elayne a list of like 5 different things to make sure she tells Nynaeve. :laugh: If I were Elayne I'd be like "Wait, wait, wait, can I write this all down?" :p

Chapter 26:
-Min's viewing of Sheriam: "Rays of silver and blue flashed about her fiery hair, and a soft golden light."
In reference to Sheriam's beheading later:
They'd placed her{Sheriam's} head on the block and taken it off. That scene would always be vivid in Egwene's mind - her former Keeper, lying with her head pressed against the stump, blue dress and fiery red hair suddenly bathed in warm golden light as a thinner section of clouds moved in front of the sun. Then the silvery axe, falling to claim her head'

Chapter 27:
-Despite her continuous asking for confirmation of Min's viewings, Siuan does recognize that Min's viewings are guaranteed in some fashion, though she seems to think the viewings are only guaranteed to happen as long as Min still sees them.
-The Salidar Aes Sedai were considering returning to Elaida to reunite the Tower. Siuan is, understandably, incredulous.
-Anaiya flat-out says that she never liked Siuan in front of her. (speaking about her in 3rd person)
-It'd be interesting to be in Arinvar (Sheriam's Warder)'s mind during the series. It's unknown whether he was a Darkfriend, but that seems like a hard thing to hide. It would probably require a lot of masking of the bond, which in itself could be seen as suspicious.

Chapter 28:
-Gareth Bryne gets his own chapter icon!
-I assume the 'bull ripping roses from around its neck' viewing above Bryne is related to his breaking with Morgase and Andor.

Chapter 29:
-Kadere thinks that he would have killed Keille and Natael (two of the Forsaken!) if they hadn't had proof they were high up in Darkfriend councils.
-Aiel Darkfriends!
-Kadere swore to the Dark One when he was only a child. :brown-blink: I wonder how that happens.
-Kadere uses the analogy "flattened like a kitten beneath a wagon wheel" :brown-blink: :laugh:
-Lanfear told Kadere to keep an eye on Natael and Rand. (though she really shouldn't need any help with that) And Isendre's been sleeping with Natael (which actually seems to be working) to make it happen. Oddly, when the Maidens caught Isendre sneaking into Natael's tent, they decided they would force her to sleep there every night. :brown-blink: That's an... interesting decision. Not sure what to make of that. I realize they have no interest in Natael, but it's the exact opposite response they had when they found her sneaking into Rand's tent and Rand and Natael sleep nearby, right??? I realize they have different tents and they're guarding Rand's tent so it's not really a problem, but... meh, Maidens are strange. :p
-Natael has told Kadere that he's only a step below the Chosen.
-Kadere thinks of his sister whenever he kills a woman.

Chapter 30:
-Rand thinks of one of the Tairens as having 'jug ears and potato nose" :rofl
-Rand is listening to Moiraine. He specifically remembers her advice "to not offend people's customs, however strange or even repulsive, unless you absolutely had to, and even then think twice." though he recognizes it's really just common sense. :p
-He also specifically thinks of things to ask Moiraine later. (like about taxes)
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 30-37

The human Darkfriends who attack the Aiel camps are shouting "Sammael and the Golden Bees!", clearly linking Sammael with Illian. Was that the main goal of the attack? To send Rand against Sammael?
I believe so. Later (chapter 34, I think, where Birgitte takes Nynaeve to spy on the Forsaken), the Forsaken are talking about how the actions taken would set Rand at Sam's throat, and Sam was worried, but the others were like, "Uh, dude, that was the whole point."
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 38-44

Chapter 29
Did Melindhra send the note to Kadere?
Kadere didn't know that Keille was Lanfear.
He also doesn't know Natael is Asmodean.
The Maidens broke Isendre and for that Kadere kills her.

Chapter 30
Why is Moiraine so desperate to tell Rand everything? She must know that she won't be able to teach him everything. Also, does she not realize that by talking to him all the time, he is less likely to absorb what she's telling him?
Sulin teaches Rand of the fifth, and his portion of that.
Rand wishes Elayne was there to teach him about taxes.

Chapter 31
Roof of the Winespring Brothers -- :laugh:
Aviendha creates a gateway by instinct, by need. Rand blocks it the same way.
Sexy times!
Aviendha is still saying that Rand belongs to Elayne.
WHAT: Moiraine caught a fish in the river? What??
Aviendha determined that she'll stop running from fate, but is also determined that she and Rand will never have sex again.
Later Elayne is jealous that Min and Aviendha both had Rand, but didn't Aviendha only have this one time? It can't have been that great, as they were both (presumably) virgins. Elayne gets the benefit of Rand having been with Min for so long.

chapter 32
"I do not know how men like you are treated in your lands, but in Seanchan your suffering can be eased. Here, you can find great honor in the use of your power." What?
Only 2 hours difference between Seanchan and Cairhien. Maybe that part of Seanchan was in the Southern Hemisphere? That would make sense, given it was winter where they went.

Chapter 33
Nynaeve doesn't understand Elayne's eagerness to create something useful. Nynaeve has Healing, which is a useful and demonstrable achievement. Elayne has nothing like that, no concrete goal to work toward, no finished product to show for effort. This is a statement on art, and creation, and how important and enlivening it can be.

Chapter 34
I find it very hard to have any pity for Liandrin.
 

Ryu Shadowborn

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 38-44

Yes, if Rand didn't hold them back just because they're women.

That just means everybody is wrong and should be fired! Really I only give Rand a slight bit of leeway on the whole thing because he came from "Backwoods, backwards, not seen modern civilization since the area had been razed by the forces of the dark some 2000 years prior. Sulin as an experienced fighter should know what an honor guard entails, but the Maidens have never really "guarded" someone outside of odd things like when they guarded Sevanna but that seemed to be an oddity.

Everybody here is wrong in some way, which drives me up a wall because these are reasonably smart people.

Yeah, I thought that as well. I does make sense. I mean, Darkfriends in the Tower don't even know all the other Darkfriends in the Tower and Fain is... unique and a bit of a wild card so it makes sense that his existence isn't well-known among Darkfriends.

99% of the time I would agree, but Fain is important enough that the forsaken sent their best assassin after him, as the head of the Black Ajah someone that high on the list of people that need killed is something she should know about.

Does Suian really think Egwene will be "guided"?

I am going to say yes, and BOY IS SHE IN FOR A SURPRISE!

-Nynaeve can't believe that Gawyn would support Elaida.

Well, I also would not believe that Gawyn would be that absolutely, completely, brain dead. Except we saw it in action so.

I find it very hard to have any pity for Liandrin.

It is really difficult, especially considering the circumstances. "Attack the anciently powerful Servant of the dark lord that was used as a way to scare children" is reaaaaallyy asking to have a bad day.

anyways my own catch up time

TFH: 28

Gareth – Gareth finds out who Min and Co are, and end up wrapped up in an Aes Sedai plot, he ends up as the general of their army, which will eventually end up with Uno, who I mention because he is awesome and is showing up soon.

Min – And now Min is Gareth's maid, for a bit. Yay.

TFH: 29

Nothing of relevance here, I think after Lanfear's attack Kadere just vanishes from the story.

TFH: 30

Rand and the Maidens get along in a great way at times, the confusion that Rand has at Aiel customs is amusing as heck, Rand also has to perpetually remind the Aiel that they have allies in the land and to ask Estean questions and not Interrogate him like a foe.

TFH: 31

Rand heads back to his home for the night, and walks in Aviendha buck naked, the woman reacts sensibly..and creates a portal completely away from him, Rand holds the portal open and follows into a huge snowstorm, Aviedha takes a dip in cold water and Rand has to pull her out.

I gotta bring up a “what I would do if I were in charge of a show” thing..and for this scene, and have Tam be the voice in Rand's head telling him he has gotten soft.

TFH: 32

They are in Seanchan! Dun dun dun! One thing that bothers me is, if The Dark One is starting to press upon the world and cause the gigantic heat wave that is starting up, how is it not affecting seanchan? They seem to be having a wretchedly strong winter considering how strong the summer is going in the Wetlands/Aiel Waste/Shara.

I wonder if the Dark One isn't drawing heat from Seanchan, so that The Wetlands are burning up, and the Seanchan are freezing their rumps off, also why are the Seanchan allowing the Damane to stand in the snow, I know they consider women who can wield the power as slaves and sub-human, but considering the amount of military might that is contained in the use of Damanes the empire would at least want to keep them healthy as possible. Also I think the reason Rand can't touch the collar without issues, is that the Adam is a link and him touching while holding The One Power would possibly add him into the link.

TFH: 33

Not much here, just lots of bad news for Nynaeve, Galad is in Samara, Luca is flirting with her, and wants Thom to throw pointy objects at her, and Elayne thinks she can make A'dam's.

Of note, Nyneave mentions that the only good an A'dam will do would be to slap one on Elaida, FORESHADOWING! DUN DUN DUN!

TFH: 34

Nynaeve - Nynaeve heads into the world of dreams, and meets Birgitte, the two spy on the forsaken a bit however they are caught by Moghedien, who slams the Archer into the Wagon, and Monologues to Nyneave about what she is going to do.

Which, as the Evil Overlord List tells us, is a no-no. Tsk Tsk Miss Spider, you weren't paying attention to Evil Overlady School were you?

Liandrin – Question, we later see Liandrin as a Damane under Suroth, did..Suroth get Semmiharge to untie the not Moghedien put in Liandrin's shield? Or..did She just torture Liandrin to the point where Liandrin untied it herself, and Liandrin is compulsed to live no matter what. That has got to be a hundred times more torturous than normal Damenehood.

TFH: 35

In the physical world Elayne and Nyneave deal with the effects of Nyneave's fight with Moghedien, Thom and Julin shove into the wagon with an unconscious Birgitte, and that she appeared out of nowhere. Nyneave tries to heal her but she is dying due to something that is not healable.

Now, I hate to nitpick (no, no I really don't) but later we see Birgitte get killed and appear as a hero of the horn when it is blown, wouldn't dying here..just send her back to the World of Dreams? I don't thing Moghedien would so something that pointless as to dump her out of the World of Dreams for her to just die and go back. However Moghedien has been shown to not be particularly foresighted sometimes.

Anyways, Elyane goes for complete broke and bonds Birgitte as a warder, Nynaeve goes for a walk.

TFH: 36

Whelp Thom and Julin pretty much know about Birgitte and who she is, Julin is not stupid..and Thom is a bard. Just the events of the evening would instantly trigger his Bardsense “Woman appears out of thin air, with a silver arrow and a braid, whelp that is 100% legendary”

Elayne fills in the men on some more of what they are dealing with.

TFH: 37

I love Birgitte here she really is the storylines answer to Mat in many ways, she loves putting on a big show. I wonder if in any previous lives she had done this sort of show before, also the name Marion that Birgitte had in one of her lives, is that a reference to Maid Marion of Robin Hood? That would make the story of Robin Hood really strange..cause Robin would be Gaidal..and isn't he always ugly?

Elayne and Julin do the highwire act, with no weaves! Julin's gimmick here is absolutely great, the first time you do it in a town, the whole “this isn't a show” keyfabe of it would make for a great crowd reaction.

Note : Even Uno was getting a good bit of entertainment out of Julin's bit, UNO the guy who glares at you with an eyepatch was laughing. Julin deserves an award for doing that.

Then Elayne goes up, and puts on a show, and oh my..she shows off..her legs..covered in fabric. DUN DUN DUN! I know it is something that occurs in the real life but I never got the whole “oh no..her ankle is showing, how provocative.” thing like. Why? I have never once looked at an ankle of a lady and thought “Oh yes, that is the hotness”

Moving on, am I the only one who finds it odd that none of the skills that Elayne has picked up over their travels, comes up later when she is becoming queen? In Shadow Rising she learned how to weave weather, in This she learns Tightrope walking.

TFH: 38

Nynaeve recognizes Uno and chases him down, I love this pair though I am saddened that Nynaeve doesn't use the ring she has to remind Uno who she is, but Uno trying not to swear is great hilarity.

TFH: 39

Meh, I care not about Masema. It is one of those plots that end up going no-where. Especially as Rand does not personally do anything about the prophet, Masema and Rand ever talk.

TFH: 40

Galad is back, and Nynaeve asks him to get a boat, because asking two opposing factions to get her the first boat that shows up for them to leave on is a great 100% awesome idea, of note Galad and his white cloaks were going to Salidar before the Prophet showed up. That would have been interesting Galad showing up in Salidar with a group of Children of the Light.

I wonder if Bryne would have reacted to that.

TFH: 41

Rand prepares the battle, there is a tower built for him to channel from, Aviendha and Egwene will assist him, though Frankly Moraine should have been up there too, her and Egwene should have been defending from attacks, they know Sammael is watching and is sending attacks towards Rand, having a shield of air would have been a very good thing later on.

TFH: 42

Mat shows off his military memories, That is one thing in fiction I think is generally overlooked in terms of how powerful a person is, experience is a great tool for learning. Look at The Doctor of doctor who, he is not a particularly powerful being, but he is old hundreds of years old, and spent a good chunk of that time going from place to place experiencing things, he isn't a gigantic genius he has seen a great many things.

TFH: 43

Rand - Is it just me or is Lan a little out of character here? Sure he has a weapon that may not be of much use but isn't a back up weapon a good thing?

Mat – I keep forgetting Talmanes is Cairienin, Mat starts throwing around orders in the name of The Lord Dragon, mostly his plan to keep the two groups from getting themselves killed, all while trying to find a way to escape.

And then Rand starts to throw lightning around and things get really hairy.

TFH: 44

Rand thinks Melanril is still in charge of the Tairen and Cairhienin forces, when it is really Mat leading them, and Sammael drops lightning and knocks the tower over, and we start the “Rand vs Maidens” plot in earnest, and while I agree with Rand's orders (as injured are not of any use in combat and will get in the way, but do need a guard) his reasons for doing so are bunk.

Of course the Maidens reasons for wanting to go while injured are pretty well bunk too, so we have everyone acting like children. Which is why I hate this plot, it goes nowhere and everyone acts childish.

Moving onto something much more interesting, Mat has been with the just forming Band of the Red hand for the entire day.

We go back to Rand, who is wandering aimlessly. I am not sure what is going on here, it seems that insanity is creeping in, but considering that he has been channeling all day he could very well be exhaustion, they head back to camp where he collapses.
 

Rhed al'Tere

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 38-44

They are in Seanchan! Dun dun dun! One thing that bothers me is, if The Dark One is starting to press upon the world and cause the gigantic heat wave that is starting up, how is it not affecting seanchan? They seem to be having a wretchedly strong winter considering how strong the summer is going in the Wetlands/Aiel Waste/Shara.

I wonder if the Dark One isn't drawing heat from Seanchan, so that The Wetlands are burning up, and the Seanchan are freezing their rumps off...

Interesting. I hadn't thought of this explanation. We don't know for sure that this is abnormal weather for (this part of) Seanchan, which is why I thought maybe they were in the Southern Hemisphere where it would be winter as compared to the Wetlands' summer.

Question, we later see Liandrin as a Damane under Suroth, did..Suroth get Semmiharge to untie the not Moghedien put in Liandrin's shield? Or..did She just torture Liandrin to the point where Liandrin untied it herself, and Liandrin is compulsed to live no matter what. That has got to be a hundred times more torturous than normal Damenehood.
I'd forgotten about this. I wonder if a sul'dam would be able to untie the knot, if linked with Liandrin?
 

Ryu Shadowborn

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Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 38-44

Interesting. I hadn't thought of this explanation. We don't know for sure that this is abnormal weather for (this part of) Seanchan, which is why I thought maybe they were in the Southern Hemisphere where it would be winter as compared to the Wetlands' summer.

I don't think Wetlands and Seanchan are split like that though, in book 1 the Coldness in the north does not seem to be particularly surprising to Lan so the far north (This is a fine boarderlands spring day) of the wetlands have to be a little north of the temperate zone, while Illian is far south for "Snow to be a myth" so that even a Dark One enhanced winter doesn't cause snow to fall that far south. So the Wetlands seems to range from Near the equator to polar circle area, I imagine Seanchan being west of them would have a similar geographic range, at least close enough that if the temperature modifications were planetary in scale it would affect them too.
 
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