2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    This is the thread for the Fires of Heaven. You'll notice that the chapters aren't listed as 7 per week. Instead of going by chapters for this book (and forward), we're going to go by page count. I aimed to have 100-120 pages* per week, usually at the low end of that. Don't be scared by the 9 chapter week -- one of those chapters is only 6 pages, and one is only 9. This book's chapters' page counts vary wildly -- from 36 as a high to 6 for a low.

    *Pages are counted by my falling-apart paperback version that I bought some 15 years ago.

    Standard warning: There ARE spoilers in this thread for the entire series.

    Standard invitation: Feel free to jump in and out if you have something to add! We love conversation. :D

    August 9: Prologue (along with the last two chapters of Shadow Rising)
    Aug 16: 1-5
    Aug 23: 6-13
    Aug 30: 14-20
    Sep 6: 21-29
    Sep 13: 30-37
    Sep 20: 38-44
    Sep 27: 45-49
    Oct 4: 50-54
    Oct 11: 55-56
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
  2. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 1-5

    The dedication here is to Harriet. So sweet. <3

    Prologue

    • The Aes Sedai gathered before Elaida are wearing their shawls, which is unusual. Shawls are normally saved for formal events.
    • Elaida let herself be made a puppet Amyrlin, despite her need for and obsession with control.
    • All ajahs have eyes and ears except White, and Yellow's is tiny. "There was nothing of sickness and Healing they could learn from those who could not channel." Oh, Aes Sedai pride.
    • The Amyrlin's study is a few floors up in the Tower -- so low enough to have its own balcony and courtyard.
    • I wonder if Alviarin knows that Gaebril is Rahvin.
    • At this point, Elaida still plans to bring the Blues back rather than disband the ajah.
    • Elaida wants Rand "safely shielded." How can the Dragon Reborn prepare the world for the Last Battle if he's "safely shielded"??
    • Elaida is harder, more cruel, and more brittle than Suian.
    • Rahvin makes a distinction between the Light and the Creator.
    • The Aes Sedai in the palace is considered quite strong, but Rahvin still sneers at her.
    • The Aes Sedai sweats while talking to Rahvin -- somehow the compulsion makes her forget to block the heat.
    • Who is the "lean old man in a wrinkled coat" in Graendel's place?
     
  3. Megana Vallentin

    Megana Vallentin Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 1-5

    I cringed.

    Every time an Aes Sedai tosses away knowledge because she assumes Aes Sedai already know best, I want to smash things.
     
  4. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 1-5

    That is a general failing from almost all Aes Sedai in the books :\ Both the fact that "Aes Sedai knows best" and that they already know all there is to know about the Power. While at the same time complaining about all the things that were lost from the Age of Legends :look
     
  5. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 1-5

    Egwene thinks that "it's hard to hold back when she knew that she were far much stronger than the Aes Sedai and the Wise Ones in power". They are so careful, so Egwene feels like she won't learn anything in the pace she is in right now... So yeah, they're holding her back. (blame the bad language, I'm reading in norwegain).
     
  6. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 6-13

    Chapter 1

    • Leane gets giddy from flirting with Bryne.
    • Gaebril isn't well liked in Caemlyn.

    Chapter 2

    • Places where angreal are gathered: Stone of Tear, Rhuidean, the Tower.
    • Bael and Jheran both hating the Shaido and saying the same thing about them -- this leads to the two of them breaking the blood feud.
    • Society ties are stronger than clan ties.
    • How do men choose a society?
    • Lews Therin pops up and calls Moiraine "little sister." Why?
    • The seals are weakening even more -- they can now be shaved with a knife.
    • Moiraine doesn't know Suian was deposed. She also doesn't know that she (they) will be going back to a land not yet prepared by the Amyrlin for the Dragon Reborn.
    • Rand: "Perhaps one day he would find himself having conversations with people who were not there."

    Chapter 3

    • Rand: "A false Dragon who could channel [...] would not be likely to give up his own dreams of glory for another claiming to be the Dragon Reborn." Logain does, if ever he actually had dreams of glory, before the Red Ajah planted them in him. Taim never does.
    • Rand insists that Asmodean call TDO The Dark One instead of Lord of the Dark -- Is it just his fear of being overheard? He doesn't expect that he'll convert Asmo, does he?
    • We start seeing some of the checks on men's power -- cannot link without women. Women can link up to 13 without men, and 13 linked women can overpower most men, regardless of the women's individual strengths.
    • Moiraine told Rand that in the Age of Legends, men and women had been equally strong. Is this a general belief in the White Tower? Why would it have changed over the years?
    • Asmodean believes Rand destroyed the sa'angreal.
    • Even now, Rand is planning to remove the taint. I wonder if that was one of his questions to the 'finns.
    • In the Age of Legends, could people become Aiel? Convert, so to speak?
    • Go home, Mat, you're drunk.
    • Mat's memories are seamless. Those the 'finns gave him flow with his real memories; they're all his real memories now.
    • Traders are taking up residence in Rhuidean.
    • Was Melindhra actually interested in Mat? Or acting on orders?

    Chapter 4

    • The game called Thousand Flowers -- possibly Mahjong?
    • Rand puts out lamps manually ("It was the simple things that he never thought of doing with the Power.") In the Black Tower training, they're forced to do everything with the Power.

    Chapter 5

    • Egwene has a terribly skewed view of what Rand's relationship with the Maidens is.
    • Moiraine is thrust into so many situations that are uncomfortable for her (nudity-wise).
    • Egwene is embarrassed at Rhuarc seeing her as a child...but it shows that he has some affection for her if he has pride in her -- or, he has pride in his wife for teaching so well and that transfers to Egwene the student. Either way, it's sweet and shows a side of Rhuarc we don't see in the real world.
    • The conversation about Aviendha and her lie sets Egwene down the same path of having toh.
    • And this is the start of Egwene embracing ji'e'toh.
     
  7. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 6-13

    :facepalm I read 2 chapter too much last round :D So I gotta wait few days... *sighs*
     
  8. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 6-13

    I don't think the Red Ajah pushing Logain to be a false dragon is true is it? I thought that was a lie that Siuan came up with to discredit the Reds in the tower.
     
  9. Rhed al'Tere

    Rhed al'Tere Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 6-13

    I thought that was the story that Logain told once he's in Salidar. Luckily Salidar is coming up soon and we'll find out.
     
  10. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 6-13

    Siuan told Logain to tell that the Red Ajah set him up.
    But it is unclear whether that is the actual truth or just a convenient story Siuan made up. I don't think we ever got any confirmation on that :look
     
  11. Megana Vallentin

    Megana Vallentin Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 6-13

    I'm going to disappear on a LOA/vacation soon but I'll still be reading. Looking forward to catching up with you all later!
     
  12. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 6-13

    Yeah really. :facepalm Especially since we do learn (from Nynaeve) that there's a lot to learn from non-Power-based healing. It's the whole reason they were never able to Heal Stilling-they never even considered there was another way.

    That was my first thought as well.

    Chapter 1:
    -Even Logain doesn't know who Siuan and Leane are. It says the didn't know their true names. He surely saw both of them when he was gentled. (though he was probably rather preoccupied and traumatized around that event) They really look different without their Aes Sedai agelessness.
    -I'd forgotten that Gareth Bryne is the last of his line. That's kinda sad, knowing how his story ends. :(
    -It's fun just knowing what everything means now that I'm doing a reread. Like whenever anyone mentions Callandor being a sword that's not a sword and wondering what it means.

    Chapter 2:
    -Rand is rather rude to Moiraine... though it was really childish of her to attack him with the Power. :rolleyes (is she actually allowed to do that with the Three Oaths? :blink Or was it Egwene?) He does think after the discussion when it's just him and Egwene that "Perhaps he should apologize. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to be civil." Though Egwene goes off on him then. Still, at least he's somewhat realizing that they're on his side. :p
    -Rand's getting more and more flashbacks to Lews Therin's life. Remembering Ilyena and random words finding their way into his vocabulary. He doesn't realize at first that it's Ilyena, though. He thinks he's going mad, 'remembering' an imaginary woman.

    Chapter 3:
    -I'd forgotten how strong circles are. :blink Asmodean tells Rand that the 13 weakest women in the Tower could overpower Rand 'and barely breathe hard'.
    -Rand's already thinking about removing the taint on Saidin.
    -First time (I think) that we hear Jak o' the Shadows. Certainly not the last.

    Chapter 4:
    -The building the Maidens have taken as their own has mosaics of forests and rivers unlike those in the Waste. The people who made it (the Jenn and Aes Sedai) were from west of the Spine of the World and put those landscapes in their buildings.
    -Rand thinks that, since the Dark One has a way to shield the Forsaken from the effects of the taint, there might be a way that he can cleanse it himself or at least shield himself from it. Makes sense. He's really thinking about this seriously and not giving up despite Asmodean's insistence that it's impossible.
    -Rand sees the necklace that Egwene gave Aviendha and feels a stab of jealousy. :giggle
    -Aviendha lies to Rand about hating him. (at least I assume that's the lie she was referring to later when she mentions toh?)
    -About Elayne's letters:
    :blink :blink :blink Poor Rand.
    -Isendre is really persistent in trying to get into Rand's bed. Is a Forsaken or someone higher up in the Black Ajah forcing her to do it?

    Chapter 5:
    -There are cacti in the Waste.
    -I really like ji'e'toh. It's always interesting hearing more about it and how the Aiel apply it to their daily lives.
     
  13. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 6-13

    Kassina I agree about Bryne. The only notes I took during this entire reread were on this passage.

    It made my sad when Bryne talked about being the last in his family line and about how the line would end with him, particularly since we know what happens to him in the final book. :(
     
  14. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 6-13

    Chapter 10: Did Nynaeve ever meet Nini?
     
  15. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 6-13

    Do you mean Lini? I can't remember if she does or not, but that would be pretty awesome in my mind. :p
     
  16. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 14-20

    Of course I mean Lini :facepalm That happen when I'm half knocked out because of cold! :lol
     
  17. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 14-20

    :lol No worries Imz. I just figured it was something with the translation. :look
     
  18. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 14-20

    Chapter 6:
    -Balefire can be controlled to an extent- i.e. it doesn't have to go straight through the wall when you shoot it in a building. Rand uses it a couple times and both times it only goes partway through the wall.
    -Moiraine suggests that Mat stay in bed 'if he feels like it' and Melindhra then takes that as an order and says that she will see that he does as Moiraine says.

    Chapter 7:
    -Egwene thinks that it's not right to spy on her friends' dreams ("not that it was spying, exactly, but still...", but doesn't seem to have any problem trying to see into Rand's dreams.
    -Moiraine, in alternate versions of the future, tries sleeping with Rand.
    -Lan is changing, starting to tell jokes. *gasp* :eek

    Chapter 8:
    -Nynaeve assumes that the Tairens are still scared of Rand and deferential to him even after he left.
    -Nynaeve wishes they'd have taken a ship to Tar Valon and thinks they might have been back in the Tower by then... little does she know.

    Chapter 9:
    -It bothers Nynaeve that she can't heal Thom's limp. (at least at her current level of ability/knowledge)

    Chapter 10:
    -The guy who owns the pigeons sends one off after Ronde Macura (after reading the imprint of what she wrote in her letters). Do we ever learn who he sends it to? (or who Ronde Macura sends her letters to for that matter)

    Chapter 12:
    -Bryne thinks that any decent squadman could curse way better than the card drivers he heard in Lugard. :lol
    -Bryne laughs about Aes Sedai business, saying that they never let people like Bryne and his soldiers know what they're up to. Meanwhile he's following Siuan and Leane for that very reason. (though they're not 'technically' Aes Sedai at the moment)

    Chapter 13:
    -I'd forgotten how annoying Nynaeve and Elayne are on their journey together. :desk At least Nynaeve realizes how childish she's being about having to be Elayne's maid and backs down eventually. I realize we only see it from Elayne's PoV in this chapter, but it sounds like Elayne was trying to be nice about it- and it does just make sense for Elayne to be the lady in the relationship if either of them is going to.
    -Poor Thom and Juilin. Nynaeve shouting at them to speed up and then, as soon as she's in a better mood, getting pissed at them for going too fast. :rolleyes
     
  19. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 14-20

    TFH: Prologue

    Elaida - Not too too much to discuss here, The Aes Sedai are afraid of Rand, and Elaida is a terrible leader, and Alviarin oversteps her bounds several times, much to the new Amyrlin's annoyance.

    Fain – Fain is in the tower now, and managed to worm his way into Elaida's graces, and is plotting in the tower.

    Rahvin – The Forsaken has one of the Aes Sedai under compulsion, Lanfear shows up, having gathered Sammael and Grandeal as well, and the four enter a pact to not act against Al'thor until the Time is proper.

    I know none of the forsaken really trust each other but this whole thing is a bit of a waste of time isn't it? The other three know Lanfear is obsessed with Lews Therin, and She knows the other 3 wouldn't trust her one moment, and Rahvin sends dark hounds after Rand in the first part of the book, why do the forsaken interact at all, Mesesanna and Damedred have the best ideas of the Forsaken, they have their plots, don't get in the way of the other forsaken and let your own plots take hold, instead of trying to one up and back stab the others.

    TFH: Chapter 1

    Min – Logain set a barn on fire and left Min's group to be blamed, which is a complete jerk move. However all evidence we have seen about Siuan points to her acting like a 100% complete jerk, so the trio might have deserved to get knocked down a peg, especially since Logain came back and saved them, but made it clear that he and Siuan were equals.

    Siuan however makes a massive mistake by doing the most powerful oath she could, Truth be told I think she could have given less of an oath, and then tell Gareth Bryne who she really is. Gareth has a good reputation, and has always been a good guy and she knows it, and I doubt that Gareth would be too loyal to Eladia.

    Min has a vision about Logain, he has an aura of greatness yet to come which foreshadows his taking over the Black Tower, all the way in book 14.

    Gareth – Daww Bryne is in wuv, or is just bored. I think at the moment it is the second one. He never thought to retire to his manor in the country side, he is too active and too much of a workhorse to retire and do nothing so he jumps at the first chance he gets to relive his youth and bivouac, as do his retainers.

    Alteima/Morgase – nothing of too much importance here, Morgase is under Ravhin's compulsion but her subconscious is still fighting back against it, you know thinking about it, wouldn't it have been better if she ended up staying in Caemlyn? Rand comes and balefire's Ravhin into the dirt in the next book, it would have saved a good hunk of trouble for everyone if she were in the city for him to give the city back too instead of..the civil war that goes down, especially since Rand knows what Elyane is up to, if not where she currently is.

    TFH: 2

    It is more than a little strange that Rhuidean is becoming habited after thousands of years of abandonment, but Rand bring's change, and the Ter'angreal plaza is generally left alone by the Aiel, and Moraine leaves the important ones, taking the artifacts of the power that were scattered among the city, and there is also a lake in the waste now. Even without his being the chosen one Rand would have brought the Aiel together just by creating a lake in the waste.

    The Bleakness is in full force now, with Aiel throwing away their spears, some refusing to take off the white, and we have the first moment when Rand annoys an Aes Sedai enough to have them attack him physically with the power, because that is helpful.

    Really what was Moraine thinking there, does she really think treating Rand like a braindead child will help him trust her? Or is she really just desperate to not have to swear to follow him and trying everything she can to not have to do that, and Egwene thinks Rand is getting egotistical, which is quite wrong when we get in his head.

    Even later on when he does start acting a bit Megalomanial I don't really think it is out of Arrogance, the way he acts is just being tired of everyone playing games around him, especially after Dumai's well and what happens with The Domination Band, but we will discuss those when they come.

    Then Moraine shows how out of touch she is with the rest of the Aes Sedai, saying “The White Tower is busy uniting lands to his banner” when well basically the exact oppisite is happening and the Tower isn't even really uniting itself behind his banner.

    TFH: 3

    Rand – Asmodean used the power to lift a goblet to Rand, and Rand reacts understandably poorly, after calming a bit Asmodean and Rand talk, and the Forsaken basically says “the moment the Dark One breaks free I am killing myself” I honestly can't believe that he hasn't already killed himself.

    Mat – Mat gambles, and his luck is getting so strong that the Aiel won't gamble with him any more. The best part is that the “savages” don't even accuse him of cheating, they just say “Nope done losing to this guy” and move on, Melindhra a Shaido Maiden of the spear flirts with him, he digs out a necklace and gives it to her.

    With what we know later, this is probably the easiest time a Dark Friend has ever had getting into the trust of a target, Mat goes to speak to Rand, who does not react at all until Mat uses the name “Lews Therin” and Rand reacts, which sends a chill down Mat's spine.

    Rand tells Mat once again, that the Pattern might not let him go and not to trust Kadere, and then Mat gets pulled off by Melindrha to dance the spears, horizontally.

    TFH: 4

    And we see that of all the societies, Maidens are a little different or at least seem so, I wonder how the society thing goes with the clans sort of becoming 1, or well 2 with the shaido. I am curious of the Clan/Society thing in general, are the Societies like Ajahs where each has a specific skill set they train in?

    Well the Maidens are like a large sister hood, they all treat Rand as a combination of a Brother and Son, and there are a lot of them, Rand chose a huge building and he has to move up every floor when enough Maidens show up.

    I wonder if the Maidens of other clans are showing up before the rest of their clans to join their son, Rand learned to shield his dreams, and this displeased the Wise Ones though I wonder if they would have been displeased if Rand did it regardless of what he knew. After all creepy stalker lady walked into Rand's dream at least once, that is enough for him to want to shield his dreams.

    Isendre comes in and gets Rand in trouble, I really don't care about Isendre, unimportant Darkfriend is unimportant.

    TFH: 5

    Egwene attends to the wise ones, who want Aviendha to sleep in the same room as Rand, and both apprentices are horrified by it, with Aviendha insisting she hates Rand. The Wise Ones also fight with Moraine over Rand leading the Aiel across the dragonwall.

    I am with the Wise Ones here, Moraine overestimates the influence the tower actually wields in the world, especially since outside of the borderlands most of the nations of the world do not work together very well, and that is for the ones that are actually fully united.

    Ravhin is taking Andor apart, Cairhaihen is already in Civil War, Arad Domon and Tarabon are both falling apart, Ebou Dar's Queen barely holds her lands together, Gealdan is on the brink of the Civil War with The Prophet of the Dragon stirring up trouble and Murandy barely counts as a nation, and is more of a collection of City States.

    Of the great nations, only a handful really pose a threat to Rand, Illian, Amador and the 4 Borderland nations, and the Borderlands very quickly declare for Rand..once he proves he is reasonably sane, and at this point in the series he would probably pass the test.

    Though the Maidens of the spear that would accompany him to that theoretical meeting, would want to murder the crap out of the Borderland Queens and Kings.

    TFH: 6

    Rand can feel the darkhounds coming, even as he sleeps, he uses the sword of power on them but they reform, so dark hounds can regenerate, Rand then balefires them.

    You know we learn later that the wolves show up at Shaol Ghul to fight the Darkhounds, how can that work? We see Darkhounds regenerate from slashes with a sword of fire, are the wolves just sacrificing themselves to hold off the hounds?

    And then Moraine chides him for using Balefire, because it can have harsh effects on the pattern and there is one response, through the entire series that I would really like someone to have said to Moraine or especially Cadsuane since she slaps Rand physically for using the weave.

    “Okay, what is your idea for dealing with the Forsaken and the Dark Hounds, I just sliced them apart with a sword made of pure flame and it did not work”

    About the only alternative to balefire would be gateways? Would it even be practical to try and open a gateway under or in front of them since the things are absolutely deadly to the point where getting bled or drooled on can be a death sentence.

    Then Moraine drops the bomb, and makes an oath to obey rand, which Lan is 100% unhappy about but frankly it needed to be done, Rand somewhat justifiably has zero trust for Moraine at this point because you know Moraine is in fact trying to manipulate him to do what she wants, can you blame him for being suspicious of everything she does until now?

    Then Lanfear shows up, which is never a good time (understatement of the re-read so far I think)

    TFH: 7


    So not to dwell on things that nobody really wants to think about. HOW exactly would Moraine and Rand end up sharing a bed? At what point would anyone think that is a remotely good idea?

    And how much booze would Lan need to drink to get that out of his mind.

    TFH: 8

    And now things shift to our Dynamic Duo of Small Town girl, and Haughty Princess, Nynaeve used a dust storm created by the power to scare off some bandits and speaking of things nobody remotely wants to see or thinks is a good idea. Elayne is flirting with Thom.

    We also start Nynaeve and Elayne arguing over every little thing possible for the next few books, unless there is someone else to argue with, I don't know who is really to blame here because Egwene and Nynaeve got into it through book 3, so I would like to blame Nynaeve for having a short temper but Elayne and Briggette fight like sisters later on in the series.

    Also I would have loved a Thom POV at this point to get his thoughts on everything going on.

    TFH: 9

    Forkroot, Oh Forkroot how did this stuff not get discovered years sooner, I can't imagine that someone somewhere hasn't managed to stumble upon this and use it for their purposes, of course Aes Sedai look down their noses so much at anything not of the power they may not even bother.

    TFH: 10

    Luci is scared crapless here, to the point where getting looked at by Elyane makes her meep like a mouse.

    The menfolk come to the rescue, Thom seems particularly angry and ready to shank someone and I love Julin here “get me a fig and a mouse” of course I don't entirely like the way he does it. I am not really a fan of torture, I perfer the Micheal Weston way of interrogation.

    But sometimes you don't quite have time to do it that way, so Figs and Mice is quite good. Also Nyneave thanks Thom and Julin for their help as it is a really good example of why Warders are necessary and I still think the Reds are utterly insane for not having Warders since they and the Greens are the most likely to end up in complete trouble.

    TFH 11:

    Not much to talk about here, a quick check in on Min's group who are trying to find where the blues have ran off too, Siuan finds that the blues are gathering with someone named Sallie Daera.

    TFH 12:

    Another thing that we don't have much to speak about, Byrne is following Min's Party, and learns of various events that are going on then heads south.

    TFH 13:

    Nyneave you are fired from all Aes Sedainess ever, do you not think ahead for five seconds? When you agreed to be a handmaid you knew this all would be likely to happen it is common sense you have seen how servants are treated in what, 4 major cities in the world? Shinar, Tear, Tar Valon and Tarabon by now, have you not been paying attention that Elayne is a little different than the other rulers?

    Elayne shows her charitable nature towards the less fortunate again, wanting to give money to Luca, oh also Hello Luca and your traveling menagerie, your lot is basically a mainstay of the series from here on out, and that is cool I like the menagerie characters

    TFH 14:

    Nynaeve goes into the world of dreams, the forsaken are plotting, which is a surprise to nobody.

    What bothers me is that the Wise Ones hear “The Evil people are plotting against Rand, using the world of dreams” and don't think “Oh no they don't this is our house” we see later that the Wise Ones seem to have a better grasp on the dreams than the forsaken seem to, only Moghidean even attempted to use the dream itself as a weapon as far as I can recall.
     
  20. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Fires of Heaven Chapters 14-20

    Yeah, Nynaeve's and Elayne's bickering gets a bit old :\ And it doesn't really improve when we need to go through chapter after chapter of Elayne getting dressed later on :look

    And I see a lot of placing of pieces in the beginning of this book, all the characters moving to where they need to be in the middle books, Bryne, Morgase, Nynaeve and Elayne... And Rand and the Aiel of course :look
    AndI agree, Moiraines plan is doomed to fail, especially after the coup in the Tower...