2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 14-19

Why does sun-haired mean red to you guys? *curious* The sun is yellow.

 

[Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 14-19

Yeah, to me sun-haired means red-tinted, if not full on red hair But I know from pictures that Elayne is blonde now

Oh thank you! I'm so glad to know that I wasn't the only one who thought this.

Why does sun-haired mean red to you guys? *curious* The sun is yellow.

Yes, yes it is. :P

I think perhaps I've associated "sun" with "firey" and that's why I envisioned her with reddish hair.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 14-19

Yeah, sun=fire

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 14-19

I'll be updating my notes tomorrow (probably), but I just read the part with Alanna bonding Rand and ... just... ugh. It makes my stomach turn. And she was so damn smug about it! Content, is the word used. And then she thinks she has the right to get pissed because Rand is telling her where to go? Does she even know how much (more!) damage she's done to his trust in Aes Sedai?

 

[Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 14-19

The School in Caihrien is located at Lord Barthanes mansion. I hadn't noticed that before.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 14-19

-How is Rand so amazing with a sword so that he actually has to pay to get people to come in and still wins against these people 5v1?

Practicing every day for a year+, he probably did 10 or so Hours with Lan while he was in Fal-dara

-Every Ajah has eyes-and-ears except for White. Interesting that White doesn't have one. Do they just not care enough about what goes on in the outside world?

I bet the whites do, but they don't talk about their spies the best logical way to hide your spies is to make people think they don't exist.

-There's fighting in Shienar and Arafel. What fighting? Why?

Probably a mis-telling of the meeting between all the borderlander rulers

Semirhage does needlework.

She really bloody is Cadsuane except working for the shadow

Delana is a pale blonde?! How have I missed that all these years?

Don't feel bad, I missed that Julin's hat was a Fez.

LoC 3

Rand sets up the school, and lets slip in the first real way that he intends to cleanse saidin. I wonder what his plan was before he gets the second cut across his scar from Fain.

LoC 4

I almost feel sometimes as if I can understand Aiel humor, like I get the joke about “Stone Dogs” being slow, there has been a rebellion in Tear, whoo people being stupid.

LoC 5

And the corruption of Oliver begins, Mat being the worst of his Uncles in terms of being an absolutely bad influence, but Mat never thinks he is.

LoC 6

The Forsaken are playing their games, Grendal sends Sammael at Rand, and Semirhage tortures an Aes Sedai for information. Not sure why really, the black more or less control the Aes Sedai still at this point so they could very easily spy on Aes Sedai that are not Dark One Alighned.

Also Semirhage rapes a warder to death, all I am going to point out is reverse the Genders in this scene and I imagine people would react..differently.

LoC 7

Not much here, the Council of the little tower get themselves caught in a nightmare, Elayne and Siuan pull their bacon out of the fire and they get absolutely no real accolades. Someone should box the ears of half the Aes Sedai in this series, Give me Wise Ones any day of the week.

Elayne visits Caemlyn, and thinks poorly of Rand putting up a second Throne and putting the Lion Throne up on the pedestal, however I think she misses some of the point. Rand is actively trying to avoid sitting in The Lion Throne, and Elayne at one point has a thought about “Men who sit in the Lion Throne are doomed” however, having it in sight on the pedestal reminds people of The Trakands who Rand has outright stated he intends to put back on the throne.

LoC 8

Not much here, we see an average day in Salidar, which is important world building.

LoC 9

We look in on Niall and Morgaise, you know I think Niall could have been a great hero if he hadn't ended up in the white cloaks.

LoC 10

It is really lucky that, Alanna did not get balefired here, seriously, and are we supposed to think that Rand's reaction after Alanna bonded him a sign of madness? Of course he is not reacting well he gave some manner of trust to the Aes Sedai and he gets bit in the rear end really badly, so the fact he walks away only scaring a bunch of pre-novices.

LoC – 11

Verin is quite calm considering that Alanna might have just driven The Dragon Reborn away from basically all Aes Sedai.

Also with what we know of Verin from later books, how can she at all think of Elaida being a legitimate Amyrlin, if she at all knew of how the vote went down she would know that Elaida is a figurehead for the Blacks to use to dismantle the tower.

LoC – 12

The Library's outline for this chapter is “People annoy Nyneave” which is somewhat appropriate for every Nynaeve POV chapter isn't it :P

Another rather uneventful Salidar Chapter, however these Salidar chapters are important in setting up for Egwene, as we see them talking about “The Biddable Child”

LoC -13

Tarna tries to have Nynaeve leave with her and Nynaeve tells her to take the tower and stuff it up her rump.

Whoo Bowl of the winds!

LoC – 14

Another bubble of evil, the Aes Sedai seem to panic a little and think it is The Forsaken attacking. I can't at all believe one of the browns don't have enough book learning to jump to bubble of evil. Moraine knew it quickly.

LoC – 15

I don't understand the whole depression among the Aiel, at least not from the “We shamed our ancestors by dropping the way of the leaf.” it clashes with the other parts of Ji'eh'toh where “Do what you must, and pay for it later” and losing the way of the leaf was pretty necessary in the breaking and for The Dragon Reborn to have a group of warriors dedicated to him.

LoC -16

Rand finds out more of his mother, who was the daughter Heir of Andor

LoC – 17

And here is another instance of Ji'eh'Toh being completely insane in some ways, Mangin thinks that he has toh to Rand because he broke the Law, Rand is really right in that Mangin has Toh to the family of the man he killed.

LoC – 18

Rand should have stilled the crap out of Alanna, I bet that would have broken the bond.

I do enjoy that Rand is working on trying to make a school and gather inventors, it is quite sad that the Aes Sedai have very strong political clout in the entire continent, and have an Ajah dedicated to learning/study and they never set up a school.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 14-19

I feel that way about his leadership skills. Some people (such as Elayne) are raised in that environment and trained from birth and still struggle at times. He's grown so commanding and plotsy!

The School in Caihrien is located at Lord Barthanes mansion. I hadn't noticed that before.

I caught that one! :joy Mostly because when they mentioned starting a school, I was like "how the heck did they have time to build a new school?"

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

Chapter 6

• It's easy to write Graendal off as foolish. She air-conditions her entertainment room, she Compulses people beyond any independent though, wears lots of jewelry. But she's crafty. And scary.
• She was a dedicated ascetic who helped those with disturbed minds. So she's gone the complete opposite way of what she used to be -- extravagant, over the top, all pleasure all the time, and she's now disturbing minds rather than helping them.
• Graendal is good at hiding in plain sight.
• jegal: a scaled, chameleon-like creature (per the Companion)
• Graendal and Sammael worked toghether in the Age of Legends after turning to the dark side.
• Graendal has Sharans -- does she know Demandred is there? She's left a power vacuum, maybe that's when Demandred steps in.
• Graendal is posing as an invalid merchant in Arad Doman.
• "She used Compulsion so often like a hammer that one might forget that she could wield the weaker forms of it with great delicacy, twisting a mind's path so subtly that even the closest examination might miss every trace of her."
• Sammael believes Rand is Lews Therin reborn, but not actually Lews Therin.
• Sammael and Graendal are both afraid that Rand will be named Nae'blis.
• It is possible to Heal scars.
• Semirhage is a sadist who calls her victims patients.
• Cabriana is not Black, but Blue.
• Even Myrdraal do not know how they use the shadows to move.
• There was no Warder bond (or anything similar) in the Age of Legends.
• Sammael accepts that all power comes from TDO and he can only go along with what TDO wants.
• tcheren sounds like chess but was not in the Companion

Chapter 7

• Elayne nurses birds back to health.
• Birds (songbirds, anyway) are not strong enough to survive the shock of Healing.
• Elayne is sure she could solve the weather problem.
• The a'dam bracelet gives bad dreams. Would it normally, or is it just because it's Moghedian it's linked to?
• The shape and colors are important to make the Tel'aran'rhiod terangreal work.
• "The Aes Sedai should have remembered that Suian had had the reputation of a strong-willed and devious manipulator, and to a lesser extent so had Leane." How do they all forget who the women were before stilling? Do they think personalities changes as much as faces?
• Leane and Suian's act is working and makes sense. If it looks like they hate each other, it's not suspicious when they agree on a course of action.
• Elayne knows Suian and Leane are using the pretense to guide Sheriam et al to support Rand, but not what else.
• Accepted in Salidar are not required to call Elaida Elaida Sedai.
• Alviaran has countermanded Elaida's orders.
• What happened to the current Eyes & Ears of Blue? The Aes Sedai who served as E&E in the Tower after Suian?
• The Aes Sedai and Elayne don't know about the bubbles of evil. But Nynaeve thinks about how she's told them (in chapter 11 or 12).
• 294 Aes Sedai support Elaida, 1/3 of all Aes Sedai, "almost as many" as are in Salidar. So if about 1/3 are in Salidar, there are about 300 unaccounted for, and we have a total of 900 Aes Sedai.
• Minor terangreal like those Elayne has made were used for training beginner students. In Tel'aran'rhiod? With ter'angreal in general?

Chapter 8

• Since leaving the Two Rivers, Nynaeve's Listening to the Wind has become more than just weather.
• Elaida is neglicting Tar Valon.
• Nightmares appear at random? Or does the bubble of a nightmare appear near the dreamer?
• Ok, so, the Red Ajah and Logain is a lie? Does Nynaeve know that? Does anyone know other than Logain, Suian, and Leane?
• Lelaine is a bitch.
• Lelaine thinks Nynaeve is foolish for trying to Heal Suian and Leane.
• Nynaeve "chose" to remain in Salidar. Ha! She'd be a runaway if she left.
• The Yellows refuse to believ that silling can be Healed.
• Thom and Juilin went to Amadicia.
• Salidar has more novices thatn the Tower has for years.
• Poor Nynaeve went to her room to avoid surprises and gets surprised anyway.
• Detecting a man's channeling is impossible and Moghedian is having a minor rebellion by teaching the girls this supposed way to feel a male channeler.

Chapter 9

• Abdel Omerna is the spymaster for the Whitecloaks.
• Illuminators rarely marry outside their guild, and there's no way to be an Illuminator except by birth. How do they survive? How many are there?
• Who is the Aes Sedai adviser in Illian?
• Omerna believes everything, but some of what he believes is true.
• Omerna has purchased 3 Horns of Valere. He's gullible and credulous.
• Omerna is a front. Balwer is the true spymaster.
• The army Rand has poised at Illian is so large that Niall is horrified if it's even a quarter as big as rumor says. An army of that size has not been seen since Hawkwing.
• Ogier are meeting.
• Sea Folk are staying in port.
• Niall wants to shatter the White Tower.
• Morgase still believes she'll be taking back Andor.

Chapter 10

• Taim knows the trick of ignoring the temperature.
• Rand feels he abandoned the Two Rivers. But he doesn't understand that he did what he had to do. Someone else is handling the Two Rivers. Perrin's got it.
• Verin and Alanna in Caemlyn.
• Alanna has just done even more to make Rand distrust Aes Sedai. And she's so damn smug about it.
• In a Bonding, the Warder feels a great heat, then super aware of himself and the Aes Sedai. The bonding weakens the Warder briefly, leaves him/her shaky.

 

[Kassina Tendar]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

"The Aes Sedai should have remembered that Suian had had the reputation of a strong-willed and devious manipulator, and to a lesser extent so had Leane." How do they all forget who the women were before stilling? Do they think personalities changes as much as faces?

Yeah, I think they more just want to believe that their personalities and everything changed post-Stilling. The thought of it happening to them is so terrifying that they would much rather pretend that Siuan and Leane have never been Aes Sedai, which means not thinking about what they knew of them when they were Aes Sedai.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

Yes, Aes Sedai are very skilled at ignoring what they don't want to see or think about
I think this is one of the main reasons that the White Tower lost the control they had over the world around the time of the Trolloc Wars... They don't have a real grasp on how the world works anymore, and thinks everything should be the way the Aes Sedai think it should be, regardless of how realistic that is.
You see this again and again in the way they plan things, and how they end up
However, Aes Sedai is hardly the only group that has this problem

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

Silly Aes Sedai, ignoring something won't make it go away, no matter how much power is behind your denial. :tug

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

Regarding this week's chapters, I remember being VERY concerned about Egwene at this point. She's acting so Aiel that I worried that she would have trouble fitting back into "normal" society once she finished training with the Wise Ones.

Then she bumped into Gawyn and handled that SO perfectly that I still smile when reading it. She just straight up tells him she loves him and that's that.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

Regarding this week's chapters, I remember being VERY concerned about Egwene at this point. She's acting so Aiel that I worried that she would have trouble fitting back into "normal" society once she finished training with the Wise Ones.

Then she bumped into Gawyn and handled that SO perfectly that I still smile when reading it. She just straight up tells him she loves him and that's that.

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

Something that's been bothering me that came up yet again when I was reading today (chapter 15). What's the difference between Aiel Dreamwalkers going to Tar'aran'rhiod and the wetlanders? The Aiel say you should feel just as rested after TAR'ing all night as if you'd slept normally, but none of the wetlanders do, including Egwene. What's up? What's the difference?

 

[Kerna Shedrian]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

With the others, it's probably because they are channeling to be in TAR. Egwene though?

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

Years of practice for the Wise Ones?

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

But the Wise Ones said it wasn't supposed to make them tired, regardless of the amount of training. They were confused as to why Egwene was tired, and I think Egwene started hiding it so they wouldn't keep poking and prodding her.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 20-27

Years of practice for the Wise Ones?

Gonna say combination of years of practice, generations of Dreamwalkers existing so Aiel are probably genetically better at it..as well as Aiel just being outright sturdier than wetlanders in general.

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 28-33

Chapter 12

• What's Moggy trying to do to Nynaeve? Just throw her off, I think.
• Birgitte thinks Uno's hot!
• Nicola doesn't have the spark inborn, but can learn. Plus her potential is very high.
• Also, she's super bitch toward Nynaeve.
• Sheriam et al still think Egwene is a 'biddable child.' For that matter, Suian probably does too.
• Who was watching Nynaeve and Theodrin?

Chapter 13

• Theodrin is truly committed to helping Nynaeve break her block, and Nynaeve wants Theodrin to succeed, and not just for her own benefit.
• Is Tarna Black?
• Tarna wants Nynaeve to return to the Tower with her, so that the Tower can make use of the knowledge of Rand that Nynaeve has.
• Why is Bryne watching the Little Tower? To remind them what he's giving up to help them so they're less tempted to go back to the White Tower?
• Ebou Dari Wise Women can heal anything. I mean, Heal anything.

Chapter 14

• Egwene had dreamed of approaching Nynaeve and Elayne in TAR, but those dreams felt more like nightmares, so she doesn't approach them.
• TAR / dreamscape encompasses all worlds.
• Egwene doesn't know what Leane looks like now, or Suian either.
• Wow -- Gawyn is as tall as Rand, at 6'6" (I believe that's right -- it's in the Companion).
• Egwene is sucked into Gawyn's sexy dream.
• Aes Sedai think the bubble of evil is a Forsaken.
• Did Anaiya recognize Nicola's Foretelling?
• "The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."
• This is a vision of Elayne, Aviendha, and Min next to Rand's body after the Last Battle. She's foretelling that the Last Battle won't really be the last, and that the Seanchan (return, guardians) and the Aes Sedai (servants) will have a struggle for power.
• Was Anaiya disappointed it wasn't an attack by the Forsaken?

Chapter 15

• Egwene has headaches after going to TAR.
• Neither Elayne nor Nynaeve likes Areina. Does Birgitte, or does she only tolerate her?
• Nynaeve chews out Sheriam et al.
• Carlinya and Morvrin -- Black?

Chapter 16

• How do the Aiel not sweat?
• Dyelin sees Tigraine in Rand.
• Rand and Galad are half brothers. Moiraine is related to Tarengail and Galad. Luc is Rand's uncle.
• Tigraine leaving Andor led to the Aiel War, but Gitara told her to leave to save the world.
• What role did Gitara have in Luc's change/leaving?

Chapter 17

• When Rand trades bodies with Moridin, does he keep his bonds?
• Is there a way to dissolve the bond, or can it only be transferred?
• LTT humming and admiring Berelain.
• Cairhienin ji'e'toh.
• Berelain and Rhuarc share an office and each decorated their half to suit themselves.
• Fighting in Shara, but Rand thinks it's because of him. Maybe a little, but Graendal stole the ruler and the successor, so it's not completely Rand's fault.
• There's a Sea Folk ship in Cairhien, and no one thinks to go see what they want?
• Berelain is resettling farmers, preparing Cairhien for the planting season.

Chapter 18

• Inventions: Telescope (for astronomy); hot air balloon
• Jalani and Dedric are flirting and Rand picks up on it and teases them about it.
• Before they -- whoever they are -- drill into TDO's lair, it has to be whole, to then be drilled into, then patched, then broken by the Third Age. Enough time passes between the Third Age and the drilling to forget that TDO exists. This is all circular and philosophy and doesn't seem like it will help Rand at all, but it actually does lead him to realize that the fix he is going to do is basically a seal on TDO so good that TDO can hardly touch the world at all. Rand's patch won't be a patch; it'll be a new seal that, come the Age of Legends again, will be bored through.
• Egwene doesn't realize that he Aiel respect Berelain because she's competent.
• Ta'veren need almost made Egwene spill her guts.
• Rand decides he has to treate Egwene as Aes Sedai.
• Rand thinks Egwene didn't see how tired he is.
• Were the Maidens that Egwene saw throughout the palace watching for Rand, to guard him nonchalantly?

Chapter 19

• Rand is dreaming LTT's dreams.
• Ran doesn't know that his being ta'veren almost made Egwene tell him what she knows.
• Rand's pain is tarting to sink through to Alanna. And good. She deserves every drop of it.
• "the one who is no longer" is the key to the bowl. No longer Aes Sedai.
• What is Aviendha's toh? To Elayne, for loving Rand? For having sex with him? She has toh toward Rand, because he saved her from Lanfear.

Chapter 20

• The Ogier's old records, dating from just after... And Haman is conveniently shushed.
• Ogier outside the stedding for 10 years suffer some pretty major health consequences, including death.
• Erith has claimed Loial.
• The Ogier don't care who or what Rand is, other than he knows where Loial is.
• The Ogier are sad and maybe horrified that the humans have lost the memories.
• Haman weeps for the lost groves.

Chapter 21

• Sulin gathers all the Aiel she can for the trip to Shadar Logoth.
• Is LTT addressing Rand? I think he is, at least briefly, before he's distracted and "wanders off" again.
• The feel of Shadar Logoth almost buries the feeling of the Waygate. Poor Ogier.
• Rand sees Shadar Logoth as the beginning of the troubles he and his friends have.
• Rand thinks of cleansing the Ways.
• Saidin reverberates in Shadar Logoth, with the taint and the evil of SL.
• The Ogier and Rand both feel as though they're protecting the other.
• And Liah is lost in Shadar Logoth. What happened to her? I'm pretty sure we find out, I just don't remember.
• Haman tells Rand he must not kill himself. How is he speaking here? From his knowledge of the Prophecies? Foretelling? Old wisdom?

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: Lord of Chaos, Chapters 28-33

Gotta admit, I burned through this week's chapters (and a couple extra too). This is one of my favorite parts of the entire series.

I started off the series with Egwene as my least favorite character. That started to change after the Seanchan in book 2, and continued to evolve during her time with the Aiel. But this part, where she becomes the Amyrlin Seat, that was when she was finally cemented as my MOST favorite character instead of least.

:joy