Official Update Regarding Riley Robinson

Sabriane Diamodred · Jan 29, 2015

Dars al'Kaskade said:
I just have to say, that is extremely well-articulated. It captures the context of things, both the obvious bad (the act) and the greater good (the community).

Thanks Dars

Sabriane Diamodred · Jan 29, 2015

Lillian O' Neeus said:
I was arrested for a crime I didn't commit once. It was almost two years before the case against me was dropped. This was the brief explanation that my lawyer gave on why it was taking so long. Mine was a case of he said, she said on top of that. They knew the result of the crime, but couldn't pin down who committed it because of conflicting statements.

It also didn't help that my lawyer had a heart attack in the middle of all that time. >.<

And I still received consequences from it even though the case was dropped. I'm now not allowed to work with children, nor can I adopt.

Sorry for the double post - but that is so awful Lillian that you had to go through that. My heart goes out to you, that must have been a terrible ordeal.

Deoan Kakarot · Jan 29, 2015

Kelgan al'Moranwin said:
I don't know that it's a both/and. From the IRS perspective, either you admit you got it illegitimately, in which case you are handled through the criminal justice system, or you insist you got it legitimately, in which case it's treated as regular income (baring something like a gift, and even that has limits) that you didn't report and on which you now owe penalties and back taxes. There's a piper to pay either way.

This is how they caught Al Capone.

Pip al'Dealys · Jan 29, 2015

Thanks Lillian!

Aria Kakarot · Jan 29, 2015

Thanks for the update.

Is there a reason that Tarvalon.net isn't sharing the actual amount of money that was stolen? It seems very vague every time it's brought up and I feel like I've heard more certain numbers whispered about at events than I have in any official thread. Just curious why the number hasn't been revealed. Like I get that it may be more, and we'll never know if Riley hasn't divulged, but just based on research alone, how much are we reporting to the authorities was taken?

Onis O'Leia · Jan 29, 2015

From what I understand from other cases I know of, the amount is part of the information one can't divulge until all investigations are done, at least. I don't know if this is the reason here, but if the laws aren't very different over there, that's my guess.

Maresa Lyonne · Jan 29, 2015

In addition to what Onis said, they may not even know how much was actually stolen, only a ball park figure.

Dnae Ila · Jan 29, 2015

Lillian O' Neeus said:
And I still received consequences from it even though the case was dropped. I'm now not allowed to work with children, nor can I adopt.

Oh, no! I'm so sorry for that. That's terrible!
I don't know if adopting or childcare is even a thing you want to do, but to be denied because of a mistake someone else made just feels horribly wrong. :hug

I have a friend who is blacklisted from flying because he has the same name as a known terrorist. Even though they got his identity cleared up, he's still not allowed to fly... because he tried to fly while "he" (the other guy) was on the no-fly list. :facepalm

Tazren Talamar · Jan 30, 2015

I'm just so glad that the community reacted, and still reacts, well to this. Even when people discuss it. Shows how great a community we have.

Appreciate the transparency; I was thinking about this just the other day, wondering what's happening. Hope it gets resolved as soon as possible, so that we get our money back and he is properly punished.

Naomi al'Moranwin · Jan 30, 2015

I also appreciate the update and the continued civility with which we continue to discuss this. :hug

I am not even sure if I posted in the original thread. I know I walked around for days in a fog, unable to comprehend what had happened. It was such a betrayal.

Hammar O'Justice said:
TV leadership voted unanimously to report Riley to local law enforcement in New Mexico and to the FBI on the basis of potential crimes such as theft, embezzlement, wire fraud, and ... a matter recently opened by the IRS ... addressing Riley's believed failure to report as income the money misappropriated from TV's accounts.

Hammer, could you tell us what the law in these jurisdictions sets out as punishment for these crimes? In general, I mean, not as a promise or prediction of what will happen in this particular case.

And historical tid-bit: The Supreme Court ruled in 1927 that illegal income was taxable and Al Capone was famously convicted of it rather than the illegal activity that actually generated the income.

Ajailyn Morrivinna · Jan 31, 2015

Kelgan al'Moranwin said:
I don't know that it's a both/and. From the IRS perspective, either you admit you got it illegitimately, in which case you are handled through the criminal justice system, or you insist you got it legitimately, in which case it's treated as regular income (baring something like a gift, and even that has limits) that you didn't report and on which you now owe penalties and back taxes. There's a piper to pay either way.

Your claim being legal or not, matters not, you got income you report it period. That is what the IRS expects. Income includes if you exchange work for chickens man... You gotta claim that chicken (and yes I'm serious you must get the average value of a chicken and count it as income.) This includes gifts from family (although most people don't really count those but if they are in big enough amounts they need to be). There is a difference between earned income and unearned and how it's taxed.. so that is the only part they make a difference in.. stolen money, money earned from drug sales or other illegal activities.. report it and you won't get busted for tax evasion even if busted for other crimes.

Kyla Sterling · Jan 31, 2015

Aja, isn't that what got Brandon Sanderson a little flustered when he first started becoming famous? Fans were sending him so many Magic cards he had to hire a tax attorney to assess their value as income?
:laugh:

Kelgan al'Moranwin · Jan 31, 2015

Ajailyn Morrivinna said:
Your claim being legal or not, matters not, you got income you report it period. That is what the IRS expects. Income includes if you exchange work for chickens man... You gotta claim that chicken (and yes I'm serious you must get the average value of a chicken and count it as income.) This includes gifts from family (although most people don't really count those but if they are in big enough amounts they need to be). There is a difference between earned income and unearned and how it's taxed.. so that is the only part they make a difference in.. stolen money, money earned from drug sales or other illegal activities.. report it and you won't get busted for tax evasion even if busted for other crimes.

I bow to your experience on this point :bow

Eleyan Al'Landerin · Feb 1, 2015

I want to thank all of you for your compassion, patience and civility. This situation makes me sad because it is tragic.

This could have been infinitely more destructive than it was. That it was not is only because you did not allow it to be. We had debts to pay, but we didn't default because you rallied to meet our obligations. We had to pay our bills, and so members, event attendees, and angel lenders made sure they were paid. I hope one day we can share how very much some of our members did in order to keep us solvent.

This sort of thoughtful and measured response doesn't happen as a matter of course, especially in communities that work largely from the internet. The civil discourse, our community reaction to this... I am so proud to be part of this community.

Hammar O'Justice · Feb 1, 2015

Aria Kakarot said:
Thanks for the update.

Is there a reason that Tarvalon.net isn't sharing the actual amount of money that was stolen? It seems very vague every time it's brought up and I feel like I've heard more certain numbers whispered about at events than I have in any official thread. Just curious why the number hasn't been revealed. Like I get that it may be more, and we'll never know if Riley hasn't divulged, but just based on research alone, how much are we reporting to the authorities was taken?

One of the problems is that Riley not only had access to the money, he had access to the records. While we therefore have a minimum number that we are confident was taken, we do not yet know (until all the investigations are finished) if even more was taken. For us to say a number could reveal to him what we haven't discovered. We definitely have conveyed that number to law enforcement and the IRS, even though it is not public knowledge.

It's like a parent saying "I am mad that you were out an hour after curfew!" when you know you were out till 5AM.

Hammar O'Justice · Feb 1, 2015

Toral Delvar said:
I assume if there are charges filed and a court case, we will be told (as it will be in the newspapers, so there shouldn't be any legal reasons for secrecy). Once the investigations have been finished and the legal authorities have made a decision, will be be told whatever that is?

If and when that happens, the Board will probably make an announcement.

Hammar O'Justice · Feb 1, 2015

Pip al'Dealys said:
Also forgive me for being slow but how has it taken two years for ...... This? Is there a rough time scale until Riley gate is finished with?

Rileygate? When I discuss this with Mrs. O'Justice I refer to it as the RileyToh.

And yes, this has taken some time. Some in part because Leadership refuses to let this consume daily life; some because investigations take time, particularly where people still care enough about Riley to make sure we aren't making accusations without factual basis; and some because law enforcement staffing and personnel have shifted.

This question is reasonable, but with all this said, no further comment.

Hammar O'Justice · Feb 1, 2015

Naomi al'Moranwin said:
Hammer, could you tell us what the law in these jurisdictions sets out as punishment for these crimes? In general, I mean, not as a promise or prediction of what will happen in this particular case.

As an example, under New Mexico law, his level of fraud is a second degree felony for which the basic sentencing guideline is 9 years and $10K fine . . . assuming a guilty verdict on just one count, which is not an assumption I would make.

For those of you breathlessly rushing back from the Googles, yes, that does mean the value in question is over 20K.

Nymala Ingasy · Feb 1, 2015

Hammar O'Justice said:
For those of you breathlessly rushing back from the Googles, yes, that does mean the value in question is over 20K.

Aria Kakarot · Feb 1, 2015

Hammar O'Justice said:
One of the problems is that Riley not only had access to the money, he had access to the records. While we therefore have a minimum number that we are confident was taken, we do not yet know (until all the investigations are finished) if even more was taken. For us to say a number could reveal to him what we haven't discovered. We definitely have conveyed that number to law enforcement and the IRS, even though it is not public knowledge.

It's like a parent saying "I am mad that you were out an hour after curfew!" when you know you were out till 5AM.

This makes perfect sense. Thanks for the answer, Hammar!

Official Update Regarding Riley Robinson

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Sabriane Diamodred

Sabriane Diamodred

Deoan Kakarot

Pip al'Dealys

Aria Kakarot

Onis O'Leia

Maresa Lyonne

Dnae Ila

Tazren Talamar

Naomi al'Moranwin

Ajailyn Morrivinna

Kyla Sterling

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Kelgan al'Moranwin

Eleyan Al'Landerin

Koyn Amyrlin

Hammar O'Justice

Hammar O'Justice

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Nymala Ingasy

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Aria Kakarot

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