The Way of Kings: Re-read

Status
Not open for further replies.

Taika Vinh

Aes Sedai
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
6,045
Location
Helsinki, Finland
Interesting thought about Soulcasting! I think it might very well be something along what you wrote. And what if Shallan's drawing ability, which was at least once described as capturing the soul of things was related to soulcasting somehow. I don't know if it's only a figure of speech, though (the capturing of soul). If it's like you said, that things have an essence (somewhat like in Platonic forms), the people able to soulcast somehow understand and change it. So Shallan's ability to capture souls would be understanding and representing without changing? (Might be a bit over the top though :laugh:) I'm wondering if the soulcasting could be done to living things... Would be really scary. :look:

From this on I'm writing about things that happen until chapter 28, sorry! :embarassed:
Anyway, I've now read chapter 28 (sorry, got caught up and couldn't stop...) and so far I've only noticed not-living things being soulcast into something else. Mostly rocks - into smoke, food. And human excrement into smoke too. :p And it was just mentioned that some Lighteyes that died in the battle were soulcast into statues. But does somebody remember how (or from what) did they soulcast the barracks and other buildings in the Shattered Plains? Air?

Ah, the Shattered Plains. Kaladin said they were not natural, and later Dalinar looks at the map of them and ponders about patterns - he's sure there's a pattern in them, but can't see it (because the maps don't show them completely). I'm certain we'll get some major info about that later. Could the skin of the Parshendi (described as marbled red and black) somehow relate to the shattered plains "pattern"? Also the Parshendi apparently know more about the Plains than the Alethi. Where do they come from, what's the singing at battle, where did they get the Shards, what for did they start the war? But that's one of the major mysteries of the whole series, and I don't think we have enough info about them to start speculating credibly. :laugh: I wonder if Jasnah's theory (in the end part of the whole book) about the Parshendi and parshmen is correct...
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
3,109
Location
Portland, OR
I agree 15 chapters per goal sounds good, if the date doesn't seem right I can update.

And what if Shallan's drawing ability, which was at least once described as capturing the soul of things was related to soulcasting somehow. I don't know if it's only a figure of speech, though (the capturing of soul). If it's like you said, that things have an essence (somewhat like in Platonic forms), the people able to soulcast somehow understand and change it. So Shallan's ability to capture souls would be understanding and representing without changing? (Might be a bit over the top though ) I'm wondering if the soulcasting could be done to living things... Would be really scary.


Regarding Shallan's ability to capture the soul, in school I remember being told a good writer will make every word worth looking into, so I don't think your looking to far into that point at all. The Platonic comparision seems plausible to me, you've given me a lot to think about!

It also may be that soul-casting works better transforming living things, or perhaps can be transformed into more, like more food can be made using a living thing as opposed to rock.

There's a lot of good points and questions that have been brought up, but I'm at work and I actually have to work today :( , so I'll take a better look when I get a chance :P
 
Last edited:

Eluial Aldaran

A real gaydin
Aes Sedai
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
13,810
Age
39
Location
Seattle, WA
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Interesting thought about Soulcasting! I think it might very well be something along what you wrote. And what if Shallan's drawing ability, which was at least once described as capturing the soul of things was related to soulcasting somehow. I don't know if it's only a figure of speech, though (the capturing of soul). If it's like you said, that things have an essence (somewhat like in Platonic forms), the people able to soulcast somehow understand and change it. So Shallan's ability to capture souls would be understanding and representing without changing? (Might be a bit over the top though :laugh:) I'm wondering if the soulcasting could be done to living things... Would be really scary. :look:

From this on I'm writing about things that happen until chapter 28, sorry! :embarassed:
Anyway, I've now read chapter 28 (sorry, got caught up and couldn't stop...) and so far I've only noticed not-living things being soulcast into something else. Mostly rocks - into smoke, food. And human excrement into smoke too. :p And it was just mentioned that some Lighteyes that died in the battle were soulcast into statues. But does somebody remember how (or from what) did they soulcast the barracks and other buildings in the Shattered Plains? Air?
Oh, I like that about Shallan. I think it makes perfect sense. She's able to see the souls of things which is why her drawings are so accurate. Maybe it's a related yet still distinct ability.

Some more things about soul casting: we're told that it's a bad idea to make food from metal, because if something is done wrong the food will be poisonous. That implies that the "going wrong" is probably an incomplete transformation. Also, (this happens much later on, but just bringing it up now) when Jasnah soulcasts the jam and she spoils it, that implies that because she's unfamiliar with jam she isn't able to keeps its properties while getting rid of the poison (well, antidote, actually, but whatever).

Also, I believe living things can be soulcast, because again, of Jasnah. When she takes Shallan into the city and they're attacked by those street thugs, and she turns them into statues.

I think buildings are soulcast in two different ways. The first is simply carving into a cliff side or something, where you just hollow out the rock to make a building. The second is where they build the building out of something not very sturdy, like wood or cloth, and then soulcast it into stone.


Ah, the Shattered Plains. Kaladin said they were not natural, and later Dalinar looks at the map of them and ponders about patterns - he's sure there's a pattern in them, but can't see it (because the maps don't show them completely). I'm certain we'll get some major info about that later. Could the skin of the Parshendi (described as marbled red and black) somehow relate to the shattered plains "pattern"? Also the Parshendi apparently know more about the Plains than the Alethi. Where do they come from, what's the singing at battle, where did they get the Shards, what for did they start the war? But that's one of the major mysteries of the whole series, and I don't think we have enough info about them to start speculating credibly. :laugh: I wonder if Jasnah's theory (in the end part of the whole book) about the Parshendi and parshmen is correct...
Yes! I just read that part with Dalinar and the map. Interesting thought about the Parshendi skin patterns. I think you're right that there's definitely some connection between the Parshendi and the plains (and chasm fiends).

Also, in that first vision of Dalinar's that we see, he determines that the village he's in is actually located where the Shattered Plains are in present day. I thought that was interesting. Perhaps the Plains are the site of the last desolation?

I think I know the theory you're referring to, and I've been trying to keep it in the back of my mind as I reread to see if I can draw any connections, but so far nothing.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
42
Location
Milwaukee, WI
One thing that stuck out to me in this first part (forgive me if it was mentioned already, but I don't think it was) was the chasmfiends and their chrysalises - I believe it's Andolin that mentions it in passing in one of the first scenes with the Alethi on the Plains. What do they grow into? It's not something we ever see in this book, because as soon as a chrysalis goes up there's a fight to get to the gemheart inside, we never see what happens next. Perhaps it could provide a missing piece to Jasnah's puzzle, though I'm not sure if it supports or refutes her theory, or even if it's relevant at all...

:grumble if only we had more books!!!
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
172
Location
Finland
Also, in that first vision of Dalinar's that we see, he determines that the village he's in is actually located where the Shattered Plains are in present day. I thought that was interesting. Perhaps the Plains are the site of the last desolation?

Could be that :) or it is Urithiru, the important place that we hear a lot but don't know where it is....
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
3,109
Location
Portland, OR
I'm noticing the number 10 is used a lot. Maybe symbolic for something
 

Eluial Aldaran

A real gaydin
Aes Sedai
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
13,810
Age
39
Location
Seattle, WA
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
One thing that stuck out to me in this first part (forgive me if it was mentioned already, but I don't think it was) was the chasmfiends and their chrysalises - I believe it's Andolin that mentions it in passing in one of the first scenes with the Alethi on the Plains. What do they grow into? It's not something we ever see in this book, because as soon as a chrysalis goes up there's a fight to get to the gemheart inside, we never see what happens next. Perhaps it could provide a missing piece to Jasnah's puzzle, though I'm not sure if it supports or refutes her theory, or even if it's relevant at all...

:grumble if only we had more books!!!

Yeah, I've actually often wondered whether it was just unclear, or if we're actually missing a big chunk of what's going on with the chasm fiends.

Like, when they form chrysalises, are they actually pupating to a different stage? Is the chasm fiend the larval stage? Or is it the adult stage? Or do they just go in a chrysalis to weather high storms? Or for some other reason?
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
172
Location
Finland
Like, when they form chrysalises, are they actually pupating to a different stage? Is the chasm fiend the larval stage? Or is it the adult stage? Or do they just go in a chrysalis to weather high storms? Or for some other reason?

Storm charges their "batteries" like the money :) At least that's what I think but could be just too simplified answer...
 

Taika Vinh

Aes Sedai
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
6,045
Location
Helsinki, Finland
I don't think they go in a chrysalis to weather the high storms, because then they would all pupate the same time - and we're told they form the chrysalises frequently but irregularly. I guess they would emerge from the chrysalises as something else if they were left alone... But I agree with Deiria, it makes completely sense that they need the highstorms to charge their gemhearts!

More notions about chasmfiends and Parshendi: in chapter 28 Dalinar and Jasnah communicate through the spanreed. Shallan draws a picture from a book where it's said to be a picture of a voidbringer. Dalinar says it's chasmfiend. Jasnah then kind of dismisses the thought (that they would be the same thing) by saying something like the artist probably didn't know what a voidbringer looked like, and drew a picture of the most terrifying thing she could think of.

Now, the theory (Jasnah's) from the end of the book is that the Parshendi / parshmen are the voidbringers. I don't remember the details how she came to that conclusion, though. Anyway. There's some weird connection with the Parshendi, the chasms and chasmfiends. And the Parshendi are not human - for example they grow their own armor, a bit like a carapace... Surely it cannot be that the adult stage of the (possible) voidbringer is actually a Parshendi person? That they would actually protect the chrysalises, and not want to cut out the gemheart? Or is the gemheart somehow used to make new Parshendi?

I know that's probably way over the top, and I have a vague feeling that I read in some or other passage of Kaladin's that once they didn't have to fight and lose bridgemen, because the Parshendi had already come and taken the gemheart. I can't for the life of me find that passage now, but it should be somewhere between chapters 16 and 30. I'll look again later.

Edit: I forgot to add that I'm extremely interested in the Axies person, the spren collector who can control his own body in a freaky way. He appeared in one of the interludes. Any thoughts about him?

And also the merchants who go to Shinovar! The apprentice girl comments about the landscape, which is more like in our world (because there are no highstorms), but says it looks dead because there are no spren! So the spren could be somehow connected to highstorms too.

I've now finished the second goal, chapter 30. And I find that if I don't write about the things when they're fresh, I forget much (again). How would it be most practical to "organize the discussion" so to speak? In which chapters are you all now?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
3,109
Location
Portland, OR
Could be that :) or it is Urithiru, the important place that we hear a lot but don't know where it is....

I thought it was interesting in Dalinar's vision that all those who desired to fight were somehow pulled (I can't remember the word used, but it felt similar to a ta'varen-like pull) to Alethela. And now it seems those who desire to fight are ending up on the Shattered Plains.

I've now finished the second goal, chapter 30. And I find that if I don't write about the things when they're fresh, I forget much (again). How would it be most practical to "organize the discussion" so to speak? In which chapters are you all now?

I'm at Ch 23 or so right now, I'll be to Ch 30 pretty fast. I think we should just post whatever thoughts we have as we're reading, and if someone gets ahead, the others can add to the conversation when they come to it?
 

Eluial Aldaran

A real gaydin
Aes Sedai
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
13,810
Age
39
Location
Seattle, WA
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
I think we can just discuss whatever we feel like whenever. If someone is earlier in the books and wants to discuss something from earlier, they can, too. Don't think we need to necessarily go in order.

Now, the theory (Jasnah's) from the end of the book is that the Parshendi / parshmen are the voidbringers. I don't remember the details how she came to that conclusion, though. Anyway. There's some weird connection with the Parshendi, the chasms and chasmfiends. And the Parshendi are not human - for example they grow their own armor, a bit like a carapace... Surely it cannot be that the adult stage of the (possible) voidbringer is actually a Parshendi person? That they would actually protect the chrysalises, and not want to cut out the gemheart? Or is the gemheart somehow used to make new Parshendi?

I know that's probably way over the top, and I have a vague feeling that I read in some or other passage of Kaladin's that once they didn't have to fight and lose bridgemen, because the Parshendi had already come and taken the gemheart. I can't for the life of me find that passage now, but it should be somewhere between chapters 16 and 30. I'll look again later.
I did have a similar thought to this, but I couldn't quite fully form it. I think the Parshendi do cut out gem hearts. I remember the same passage you mentioned about not having to fight because the Parshendi had taken the gem heart already. And there was another passage where they did have to fight (I think it was from Dalinar or his son's PoV) and it's mentioned that while they were fighting the Parshendi were trying to cut out the gem heart and just leave.

But yeah, I think that there is definitely a deeper connection between the chasm fiends and the Parshendi. I'm still unsure what the deal with the Parshmen is. Are they actually physically and mentally different from the Parshendi (other than the fact that they don't have a carapace)? What makes them slower and more docile? Maybe the gem hearts are used in a process that turns Parshmen into Parshendi? And if the Parshendi are the void bringers (or the bringers of the void bringers or whatever), are the Parshmen as well? Or are they different enough that they're not?

SO MANY QUESTIONS!
 

Raeviendha al'Toma

Aes Sedai
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
21,001
Location
Tennessee
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Discord
raevi#1563
dammit y'all stop reading so fast. :(
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
3,109
Location
Portland, OR
I keep thinking that the Parshendi skin gives a clue. Could the reddish hue of their skin have anything to do with a chasm fiend? Also their skin is marble-like. At the beginning of the book, Szeth thinks to himself rock is sacred and can't understand why the Alethi walk on it. Maybe that belief has something to do with the Voidbringers.
 

Megana Vallentin

Aes Sedai
Joined
Nov 5, 2012
Messages
5,395
Location
Charlotte, NC
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
dammit y'all stop reading so fast. :(

And stop posting sooooo much...I think I might finally be able to start reading in a week or so and there's already four pages of discussion to read too!
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
42
Location
Milwaukee, WI
I did have a similar thought to this, but I couldn't quite fully form it. I think the Parshendi do cut out gem hearts. I remember the same passage you mentioned about not having to fight because the Parshendi had taken the gem heart already. And there was another passage where they did have to fight (I think it was from Dalinar or his son's PoV) and it's mentioned that while they were fighting the Parshendi were trying to cut out the gem heart and just leave.

But yeah, I think that there is definitely a deeper connection between the chasm fiends and the Parshendi. I'm still unsure what the deal with the Parshmen is. Are they actually physically and mentally different from the Parshendi (other than the fact that they don't have a carapace)? What makes them slower and more docile? Maybe the gem hearts are used in a process that turns Parshmen into Parshendi? And if the Parshendi are the void bringers (or the bringers of the void bringers or whatever), are the Parshmen as well? Or are they different enough that they're not?
SO MANY QUESTIONS!

Personally, I'm not sold on Jasnah's theory - it sounds so good, and it fit together so well at the end of my first read-through, but there's still some things that I'm just not sure of. For example, Szeth says in the beginning that Voidbringers can hold Stormlight perfectly, which doesn't fit with the Parshendi at all (at least that we know of so far). One theory that sounds good to me is that the chasmfiends are, indeed, the Voidbringers, but not yet - they need to grow in the chrysalises first before they reach that state. If that's the case, then it makes sense that the Parshendi would want them dead, as well, and would hunt them as the Alethi do. If they know that the chasmfiends grow into something worse, the gemhearts would be just a bonus to collect after neutralizing the potential threat.

Even if they aren't the Voidbringers, I still feel like they turn into something so terrible that it's better that the two parties on the Plains keep them from maturing further. I like the point that their gemhearts need the Highstorms to stay infused - perhaps that intake of energy is what's necessary to transform into their next stage?

The Parshendi/Parshmen debate still flummoxes me. They're obviously related somehow, and it makes sense to me that something could "trigger" them out of their docility into something like the Parshendi - which would be terrible to Roshar, since the Parshmen are so ingrained in their culture - but we don't know enough yet to do anything but extrapolate. Unfortunately!
 

Taika Vinh

Aes Sedai
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
6,045
Location
Helsinki, Finland
Yeah, I'm not sure about Jasnah's theory either. It's too early in the series to give out that much - unless Brandon Sanderson is planning some megalomanic über-plot to be revealed later! :laugh:

Ysterday I found something that might give us a better clue about how the Voidbringers, Parshendi, parshmen, chasmfiends et co are related to each other:

Chapter 36 the quote before the actual chapter (bolding mine):

Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above

It could mean there are voidish creatures that are not mortal, and that there are different voidish "races". Do we actually know if the Parshendi die of old age? (Obviously they die in the battle). What do you all make of this? I'm also starting to think that spren are somehow connected to the highstorms too. Could they also be voidish creatures - they are not mortal in any case. And there are no spren and no highstorms in Shinovar, for example.

Also, I've learned more about soulcasting: there indeed are 10 (again!) Essences, of which Shallan talks. And apparently the Soulcasters (the devices) can be "tuned" to some of the Essences. And yes, Jasnah soulcasted the criminals - two even without physical contact! (I really don't like that chapter by the way. I don't like how Jasnah handles this "philosophical" question, and I don't like at all how it's such a tremendous shock for Shallan - she's done more terrible things in her past. :grumble)

And yes, in the last few chapters I've read (36 is the latest) it's confirmed already many times: the Parshendi indeed cut the gemhearts.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
5,881
Location
Eureka , CA
Arecias what do you think of this book? is it fantastic? I am loathe to start any book when the series is slated for 10 books but isnt very far along! hahahhaha P.S. Your avatar is rad! what Knight is THAT!!!!!!!??? :)
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
3,109
Location
Portland, OR
Nice to meet you Brandegoris! The book is really good, I hope the rest of the series lives up to the debut (I believe it will after reading Sanderson's other work). I understand the feeling about starting a new series, but I miss the anticipation of a new WoT book coming out. So I hope this series will fill that void a bit :p

I'm not sure who the knight is :cheeseeni: I thought it looked cool to though :P

Feel free to grab the book and join in the conversation here!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top