Fullfilment of Prophecy

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it kind of happens off screen for Carlinya

"Report!" Egwene demanded.
"Shevan and Carlinya are dead, Mother," Saerin said grimly. The brusque Brown was panting.
Egwene cursed. "What happened?"
"We were in the middle of our ploy, having a discussion about a fake plot to bring peace to Arad Doman, as you'd ordered. And then
Fire," Morvrin said, shivering. "Blasting through the walls. Women channeling, several with incredible Power. I saw Alviarin there. Others, too."

We don't know the exact killer yet, but its one of that attacking group.



Akeis that is an awful paragraph, I can barely work out what your trying to say.

Whose death are you referring to there?

As for how far back Natrins Barrow burned back, according to Sanderson its about the following:

Interview: Oct 27th, 2009

BYU Stormleader Dinner - Matt Hatch (Verbatim)
Matt Hatch

We know that in the Age of Legends that the Forsaken/Chosen, everyone agreed to stop using balefire because of its effects on the Pattern. Is it unrealistic then to say that a great amount of power could burn someone’s thread back a year or six months? Is that an unrealistic thing to say that there is enough power available to either one or multiple people to burn somebody back that far?
Brandon Sanderson

I see what you are getting at you are trying to figure out if killed Graendal with a whole lot of balefire would bring Asmodean back to life.
MATT HATCH

...like that could ever happen...
BRANDON SANDERSON

That’s what you are digging for isn’t it?
MATT HATCH

Let’s say, if a Forsaken was responsible for killing another Forsaken...
BRANDON SANDERSON

Uh huh...
MATT HATCH

And said Forsaken was balefired...
BRANDON SANDERSON

You are under the assumption...You are trying to figure out who killed Asmodean again. That’s what you are trying to do and I’m not going to get caught and let you know...
MATT HATCH

It’s a legit question...and I’m sure whatever is said at this table stays at this table...
BRANDON SANDERSON

I’m sure, the leader of Theoryland and the guy taping this... [much laughter] Let’s divorce it. Rand balefires Rahvin as hardcore as he could and Rand is one of the most powerful people to live and he got us—what have you determined?—from the lightning killing Mat until balefire killed Rahvin, I’d guess fifteen minutes.
MATT HATCH

Well, he at least got us fifteen minutes. We don’t know how far back, we just know up to that moment.
BRANDON SANDERSON

Well, we do know because if it had been too much further than that we would have noticed a lot of discrepancies in the Pattern from things he’d done...
MATT HATCH

Let’s say thirty minutes to an hour, at the most...
BRANDON SANDERSON

Alright, thirty minutes to an hour. Okay, let’s say the Choedan Kal amplifies his abilities 100-fold...let’s say it’s a 100 times more powerful than Rand. That’s giving us, lets say he got an hour, we’ve got four days, from the most powerful, one of the most powerful sa’angreal ever created. I think it is unrealistic to assume you can get back a year, but that’s not saying it is impossible. I think that if you did that to the Pattern the ramifications would be so dramatic you’d see the Pattern unraveling hardcore at that point, it’s like balefiring an entire city. When I first read that guess I just laughed, I’m like guys c’mon lets run the math on this.
MATT HATCH

Like I said to Jennifer, it is my job at Theoryland to entertain these ideas.
BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes it is, it is your job to entertain them. But in the terms of Mythbusters let’s go ahead and call that one “Busted” in the realistic world. I’ve got to give you at least something, so I’ll at least give you that...If it were possible to do things like that, we’d have the Dark One just going and balefiring you know Tam so Rand never gets picked up off the mountain. [...] I think it is more loose guidelines than it is a formula.

personally I think he's under estimated the relative strength of the Choedan Kal there, but anyway I don't think anyone killed in that balefire strike was up to much in the week beforehand that would be significant to undo.
 
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personally I think he's under estimated the relative strength of the Choedan Kal there, but anyway I don't think anyone killed in that balefire strike was up to much in the week beforehand that would be significant to undo.

Yeah. But it doesn't sound like he was very serious about the estimation, from the "let's say" part. As it's described somewhere, iirc, that Rand channeled as much as a hundred men with Callandor (although I guess that might be an exaggeration). Anyway, Moghedien got ecstatic from the thought of channeling a thousandth of what Nynaeve did at the Cleansing.
 
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Yeah. But it doesn't sound like he was very serious about the estimation, from the "let's say" part. As it's described somewhere, iirc, that Rand channeled as much as a hundred men with Callandor (although I guess that might be an exaggeration).

Anyway, Moghedien got ecstatic from the thought of channeling a thousandth of what Nynaeve did at the Cleansing.

Agreed, I think its much higher.

The high hilltop was not very near to the access key, but even so the key shone so brightly in Moghedien's head that she hungered for just a sip at that immense flow of saidar. To hold so much, the thousandth part of so much, would be ecstasy. She hungered, but this wooded vantage was as near as she intended going. Only the threat of Moridin's hands caressing her cour'souvra had driven her to Travel here at all, and she had delayed coming, prayed that it would be over before she was forced to. Always she had worked in secrecy, but she had had to flee an attack as soon as she arrived, and in widely separated places in the forest spread out before her, lightnings and fires woven of saidar and others that must have been saidin flashed and flared beneath the midafternoon sun. Black smoke rose in plumes from burning clumps of trees, and thunderous explosions rolled through the air.

But even a thousand times more powerful than Rand only puts a full power Balefire strike at 41 days (assuming it scales linearly, which is a pretty big assumption).

So it doesn't push it back very far even then.

That's assuming Rand used a full power strike, which to be honest I doubt he did even to start with as it wasn't necessary.

Much of the strength of that strike went into increasing the area effect I should think too.

So we can probably estimate anywhere from 1 week to 6 weeks at most I should think as boundaries to look in for possible actions to be removed.
 

Toral Delvar

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And Mat
Mat, weighing two Aes Sedai on a huge set of balance scales, and on his decision depended.... She could not say what; something vast; the world, perhaps.
(Pod, Ch. 8). Saving Moiraine apparently saved the world, but I can't think of any time he had to make any important decision between two Aes sedai
 
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Mat had to choose between saving Moiraine and opening Verin's letter. He chose to save Moiraine. It is possible the letter held info about the trollocs invading Caemyln, but by choosing to save Moiraine he saved the world as she was necessary to be by Rands side for anothe prophecy.
 
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I think this is Logain symbolically taking over the Black Tower.

I agree with Kerna Sedai here, when Rand died there was no confirmed leader of the BT. So Logain symbolically steps over Rand by stepping in to fill the power vacuum.

As for Elayne, this may be a stretch, but could the red hot iron and the axe represent the dragons and Ogier that were major parts of her fighting forces in her campaign in Andor and Cairhien?
 

Toral Delvar

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I suppose that could fit given how metaphorical the dreams can be, but it si pretty lame as in his mind he wasn't making a choice, he still intended to open Verin's letter when she asked.
 
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I agree with Kerna Sedai here, when Rand died there was no confirmed leader of the BT. So Logain symbolically steps over Rand by stepping in to fill the power vacuum.

As for Elayne, this may be a stretch, but could the red hot iron and the axe represent the dragons and Ogier that were major parts of her fighting forces in her campaign in Andor and Cairhien?

I remember a quote somewhewre from Rand about a man with no free will is just a puppet. Can't find the quote right now, but Rand pretty much had no real free will of his own as he was doing the wheel's will. Male channelers becoming as common as the female channelers is arguably part of the natural state of the wheel. So once Logain officially takes over as head of the Black Tower after Rand's death, he is metaphorically walking over the body of a puppet.

Also I hadn't thought of that interpretation for Elayne's. It seems like great reasoning.
 
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I suppose that could fit given how metaphorical the dreams can be, but it si pretty lame as in his mind he wasn't making a choice, he still intended to open Verin's letter when she asked.

He intended to, but never did. Also, by the time he would have opened the letter after saving Moiraine it would have been too late. Effectively he chose between the two, even if he didn't realise it.
 

Imzadi Hopewind

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Mat had to choose between saving Moiraine and opening Verin's letter. He chose to save Moiraine. It is possible the letter held info about the trollocs invading Caemyln, but by choosing to save Moiraine he saved the world as she was necessary to be by Rands side for anothe prophecy.

Yes, the letter was about the waygate in Caemlyn and trollocs...
 
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