The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

Toral Delvar

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Is there any other explanation? Fain does claim it caught up with him, but didn’t consume him. I think we can rule out the Forsaken, which leaves again, some weird ta’veren effect or Machin Sun itself messing with Rand.
Fain wouldn’t explain how it is also at the next Waygate they try
 

Merena Orithana

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Do we know what Machin Shin is, though? I thought it had to do with the taint on Saidin. If so, maybe it can sense male channelers who have channeled enough to be influenced by the taint (almost like sniffers can sniff out crime and the worse the crime, the stronger the smell)?
 
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That's what I was thinking too Merena. Maybe it could sense the taint in Rand?
 

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I don't know, but it's really effective, especially when Michael Kramer reads the voices. *shivers*
 
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although, now that I'm reading it again, Rand wasn't really nearby long enough for Machin Shin to sense it and come running. Maybe it sensed Fain? Or Just all the Darkfriends in the place in general? I'm not quite done with this chapter, so :cheeseeni:
 

Toral Delvar

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In a few chapters, they visit a nearby stedding, hoping to use the Waygate there and find it waiting there as well, so I've really no idea what's going on
 

Ilverin Matriam

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Sooo... I might have listened to half of the Dragon Reborn :look: I just wanted to mention some things that are mentioned in that book.

Maybe there is just one Dream World, so the fact that Rand is in a parallel world is irrelevant.

In Chapter 21 Verin explains to Egwene about the Great Pattern and later about Tel'aran'rhiod:

"there is a third constant besides the Creator and the Dark One. There is a world that lies within each of these others, inside all of them at the same time. Or perhaps surrounding them. Writers in the Age of Legends called it Tel'aran'rhiod, ”the Unseen World.“

So it is indeed one Tel'aran'rhiod for all of the parallel worlds from the Portal Stones, so it was possible for Ba'alzamon to reach Rand's dreams anyway. :cheeseeni:

What is your opinion: do you think the places within the arches were real alternative worlds or just figments of novices' imaginations?
It seems that one needs to be unclothed to enter, as well.

So, this was already discussed a lot, but I only wanted to share what I noticed that I had forgotten from previous reads. Egwene's test is in Chapter 22 of TDR. At the third test something went wrong with the testing ter'angreal and she almost dies. Alanna only mentioned a little buzz before the test began. Later though, after the test was done, she says:

“Had I done as I should,” Alanna maintained, “it would never have happened. The only time I have ever seen anything like it was once years ago when we tried to use a ter'angreal in the same room with another that may have been in some way related to it. It is extremely rare to find two such as that."

"May have been in some way related to it" is vague, but if we assume that the ring ter'angreal ONLY can let you enter Tel'aran'rhiod, I think it's plausible that the Accepted testing ter'angrel does the same thing. Anything is possible in TAR, so that's why so many different things can happen through the arches.
However, in TGH Sheriam said that the wounds acquired through the arches do not leave a mark when you come out of them (for unprotected women), so I am wondering if we know what would happen if one enters TAR unprotected - would they also not have any wounds? :scratch

Eh, there are a lot of questions, we can only theorize at this point I guess. It's just good for me to get these thoughts out.
 

Toral Delvar

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I had a thought on portal stones. Who built the ones on the other worlds? How could Aes Sedai get to a world to put a portal stone there, without a portal stone to take them to that world?
 

Merena Orithana

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Is this where the Aelfinn and Eelfinn come in?

Or maybe that is where space travel comes in - perhaps Aes Sedai traveled through space/time to each world?
 

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I had a thought on portal stones. Who built the ones on the other worlds? How could Aes Sedai get to a world to put a portal stone there, without a portal stone to take them to that world?

Or do they just kinda manifest when built and work properly, because The Pattern? That is a good question.
 

Ilverin Matriam

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I thought they were just...there on the other side. Like the Way gates, they have an outside and an inside, but it's the same Waygate.

Also, that's the thing though, have the Aes Sedai participated in anything related to the Portal Stones? (except using them that is) If they were created by someone before the Age of Legends, they were not necesarily put there by the Aes Sedai. But then... how do you know which world to travel to if the Pattern splits on every "if" ? I would like to think that it's chance that brings them to whichever world they have visited. :cheeseeni:
 

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Well, if they were made before the Age of Legends, people from the Age of Legends (like Lanfear) know how to use them well enough to teach others how to, and how to read them.

Also, I used a Portal Stone on the Yes or No Game thread recently, and something I thought was interesting is...you can't really classify them as a ter'angreal, even though you use the One Power to use them to get a result that you can't otherwise, and they were clearly made with the One Power. Also kind of like Waygates. I wouldn't call Waygates ter'angreal.
 

Toral Delvar

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They are very mysterious. Do we even know they are from an age before the Age of Legends? Just because people believe it does t make it true.
“Manifesting” is an interesting idea. Are the portal stone created or were they just always there? If someone makes one, do the others just come into existence? Or when the symbol is carved?
 

Merena Orithana

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:look: ***takes a portal stone and travels to alternate thread*** :waggle :rofl
 

Merena Orithana

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It is interesting that they note that the First Watcher was sitting in a chair when the Seanchan first arrived - I assume they were the leaders of Toman Head-area?
It is really apparent to me during this re-read just how much the Seanchan did change and soften over time. It makes me feel a bit more generous towards them.

"Lord Barthanes's manor crouched like a huge toad in the night, covering as much ground as a fortress, with all its walls and outbuildings." :rofl *ribbit*
:loveRJ!

Also, Barthanes apparently has his stuff together - he thinks Rand may be related to Andoran royalty ... or maybe Aiel... Rand says "I'm not Aiel, Lord Barthanes, and I'm not of the royal line, either." o_O :giggle

I was discussing this with folks in the shawl making class led by @Roheryn ni Galghandhrei t'al'Djinn Sedai - shawls in the books are often embroidered with vines - Verin's with grape vines. What is the significance of vines? Is that ever explained?

Verin notes that Machin Shin cannot be reasoned with or forced 'by any Aes Sedai living today'. However, this isn't the first or last time where an the Two Rivers Five have done something that Aes Sedai swore could never be done.

The flickering during the journey to Toman Head - did they accidentally travel through a bunch of alternate dimensions, or was that Tel'aran'rhoid?
 

Hal Bahalla

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What is the significance of vines? Is that ever explained?

I don’t recall an explaination, but I always took it as a subtle (or not so subtle) reference to the fact the White Tower feels the need to tangle itself into everything and everyones life. Always assuming it knows best, and everything. Even when shown that in so many cases evidence points how wrong they are.

Though to be fair to the Tower… just about everyone in the novels have multiple instances of arrogance.

Topic change… who killed Barthanes after the party? It wasn’t just a murder that looked related to the Game of Houses. He was torn to pieces. Fain and group had already left before he was killed. I don’t see Lanfear/Selene doing that, but she was the only other “big bad” I remeber being running around the area…
 

Toral Delvar

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I always suspected the gholam.
 

Hal Bahalla

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Hmm that might be it. Does the gholam show up again between “now” and later in the series when it goes after the team in Ebu Dar? That is whe I recall it first showing up…
 
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