The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

But this set me off on a tangent (and Ilverin apparently), looking at strengths in the Power, both the library articles we have, that have the references people make, and the other one where we try to arrange/group these. And also all the ones in the Companion
But new week, new thoughts!

Hal Bahalla said:

Something I never fully understood was why they had Nynaeve jump straight to Accepted?

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Yes - this is confusing to me, as well. I think the first few times I read it, I assumed that it was a common practice. But apparently not...

I guess it was just Siuan throwing her weight around? :tug

An interesting set of chapters coming up. Nynaeve's Accepted test, some prophecy, Re-introduction of Min, Elayne, Gawyn, Galad

Toral Delvar said:

looking at strengths in the Power, both the library articles we have, that have the references people make, and the other one where we try to arrange/group these. And also all the ones in the Companion

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I recently picked up the Companion and it has been interesting going through and comparing strength levels for the characters. One thing that surprised me was how "low" Egwene and Elayne were. Still a ways above most of the sisters in the Tower when they are found, but not really at the level of the Age of Legends Powerhouses. While reading I always kinda figured the two of them were on par with the Chosen ladies in power potential.

From what I understand, Egwene and Elayne have the potential to be very strong, but not *nearly* as strong as Nynaeve.

I think it was Siuan and Moiraine talking about them, saying Egwene and Elayne were like candles compared to the other Aes Sedai, but Nynaeve was a *bonfire*

The Companion has Cadsuane as a few levels higher than Elayne and Egwene, which directly contradicts the information in the books.
And has Theodrin and Faolin somewhat lower than the book’s suggested

Well I’ve caught up to the schedule for the reread and now I’ll need to slow down

I was thinking about “alternative stories” if some things in the books had gone differently. Imagine if Lanfear had been a bit smarter in her approach to winning Rand over.

He very clearly wasn’t interested in pursuing the “glory” she kept pushing him towards, but she just never noticed. But he was interested in her (I don’t think she was using Compulsion on Rand and team). If she had rather supported his plan to protect and return the horn, was more forthcoming with advice, and let the course of events fall where they were, and let him know she “was interested in him”, I bet he would have fallen for her hard. It would be interesting to read that story from another turning of the wheel.

And I really quite enjoy the introduction of Cairhien and the Game of Houses. The side eyes, search for hidden meanings in everything, and then Rand just being completely honest the whole time. I hope the video series takes time to explore this part of the world.

Hal Bahalla said:

Well I’ve caught up to the schedule for the reread and now I’ll need to slow down

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I'm almost two weeks ahead and just now taking a break, no worries.

That definitely would have been an interesting turn of events. I think Lanfear is too focused on power and independent to show herself as reliant on him, even as someone else. (Thankfully, in this case...) But, if she had managed to win him over, I think it would have taken all his friends together to get him back on track, which definitely would have been an interesting arc.

I know Hurin has his own explanations for it, but I think it's hilarious that he, as a Borderlander, is so into the Game of Houses.

I'm caught up!! :joy Now just need to keep up. So, when Fain did whatever he did to the Trolloc that brought him the news that the Horn was gone, was the Trolloc speaking English, or does Fain speak Trolloc?

Laralelle Susandrea said:

So, when Fain did whatever he did to the Trolloc that brought him the news that the Horn was gone, was the Trolloc speaking English, or does Fain speak Trolloc?

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I am pretty sure he understands the guttural sounds of the Trollocs (as this is the only thing close to a "language" that we know they have), and only Narg has ever been mentioned in the books to speak the common language in the books, I think.

Chapter 21:
We learn of Daes Dae'Mar, oh how I loathe all of the politics of this and later when they are in Carhien :facepalm The Captain is suspicious of the newcommers (as he should be, they are do look super weird ) but Selene is suspicious of the Captain. What can he do to her? She didn't want to tell him a name, why? This is also the time we find out she doesn't like other people being around them, so bringing Rand to a world where there are no humans seems more and more palusible. (the portal stone theory)

Chapter 22:
"Nothing is happening as I expect,” Moiraine muttered, not expecting an answer from Lan. The long, polished table before her was littered with books and papers, scrolls and manuscripts, many of them dusty from long storage and tattered with age, some only fragments. The room seemed almost made of books and manuscripts, filling shelves except where there were doors or windows or the fireplace. The chairs were high-backed and well padded, but half of them, and most of the small tables, held books, and some had books and scrolls tucked under them. Only the clutter in front of Moiraine was hers, though."

This description reminded me of this scene from LotR:


After, Moiraine talks to Lan about the time when they met. It's funny how she talks to him as if he was alone at the time, but in New Spring he has two more people with him and she knew that since she was following them.
“In the weeks that followed, did you suspect that I would ask you to bond to me? I decided you were the one in the first day.” I do not remember something of this sort from New Spring, but it could be that RJ changed the story a bit while he was actually writing their origin story.

Vandene asks "Moiraine, do you have some clue as to where the Dragon will be Reborn? Or was Reborn? Has he come already?”
It's funny that now that people see the signs that the Last Battle is coming, people (Aes Sedai) start thinking that the Dragon will be reborn soon or is being reborn now, but do not consider that he has been reborn and has lived for a while. After all he must grow up to start channeling and all You can't have him in diapers on the battle field :rofl

Anyway, after the whole commotion with the Drakhar Moiraine and Lan leave. Do they leave immediately towards Toman Head? They are there at the end of the book, which is a few months later, which makes sense since it would've taken them that long to get there from Arafel.

I think out of all Shadowspawn, Draghkar scare me the most. They take all your control before the kill...it's just unsettling. (Fear of losing all control and sense of self comes from anxiety. Just yikes.)

Second most scary is Dark Hounds.

The draghkar are very interesting - once again, it seems RJ flipped the script on gender roles and made 'sirens' into men. I think that is the major inspiration for them?

They kinda remind me of vampires as well. Could just be the bat-like appearance.

Ilverin Matriam said:

I do not remember something of this sort from New Spring, but it could be that RJ changed the story a bit while he was actually writing their origin story.

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That is what I was thinking during this section, too.
Moiraine notes that 'no aes sedai has passed her warder's bond to another in four hundred years'. I believe that later on in the books, it's noted that myrelle has another warmer from other aes sedai, I think?

Ilverin Matriam said:

You can't have him in diapers on the battle field

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Though I'm sure the Aes Sedai would have rather he was still in diapers!

In chapter 22, it is noted that Galldrian had ordered the choedan kal moved into Cairhein...I don't think there is any way they could have done that....
Happy that I got to meet Adeleas and Vandene again - they are such a cute couple!

The watchers over the waves are mentioned - I will have to watch out for other references.

Do we know who warded the draghkar? I don't think vandene or adeleas were black ajah....

We see Nyneave's raising to accepted - it is noted that the aes sedai didn't swear their oaths before the trolloc wars. I had thought they started swearing them earlier than that.

What is your opinion: do you think the places within the arches were real alternative worlds or just figments of novices' imaginations?
It seems that one needs to be unclothed to enter, as well.

The music and theaters (of sorts) in the Foregate of Cairhein are so interesting!

Myrelle's other Warder didn't have his bond passed to her. She bonded him after his first Aes Sedai died, so that he didn't die.

Also, i uh... got a little too into the story and finished the book just now.

yeah I listened to it once before we began the re-read It is good to listen to the story, while cleaning or doing some physical work! It's like someone next to you is telling you a story, while you work
But now I am reading it one more time to get into the nitty gritty details (listening and reading simultaneously)
Listening and reading at the same time has actually helped me get a better feel of the scenes that are described, like when Rand steals the Horn back from Fain for example, or the Choedan Chal scene.

ugh I have been procrastinating for two days, but I really need to read Nynaeve's test chapters now

I think they added some of the oaths after the Trolloc Wars, but it would have been hard for them to miss the effect it had on life spans, especially if there were Aes Sedai 500 years plus swearing them

Ilverin Matriam said:

But now I am reading it one more time to get into the nitty gritty details (listening and reading simultaneously)

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My ADHD says N-O to that! The girl they have who's read the series 30+ times, I just...my brain cannot compute.

This emoji is the perfect example of what happens in my brain when I receive info that I already no very soon after I've absorbed and retained it::you

I have to say, Nynaeve's test makes little sense. At least the order of them.

I mean, Malkier for the future makes perfect sense. But why is Two Rivers present? I suppose Nynaeve still thinks of herself as the Wisdom, though she has noted that she will probably not be returning for quite some time.

But what is with that random first test? Aginor? I mean, she encountered him at the Eye of the World, but if that is the case, then the Two Rivers test and this one should be swapped