2015 Re-Readalong: Eye of the World and The Great Hunt

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Catching up, but from Chapter 31, something Mat says
"I know the Horn is important, but I'm not going to be fighting in the Last Battle"

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Heh. Mat. Silly man.

Ch 31

• Few women are strong enough to use the female Choedan Kal: Moiraine, Suian, Elaida, Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve. We can probably add Aviendha to that list, though we haven't been introduced yet.
• Rand is stronger than Logain.

Ch 32

• Barthanes' palace is relatively new -- just since Loial started traveling.
• The connection is drawn between Rand and the Andoran royalty.

Ch 33

• Loial: "Rand, if you don't start being a little careful, you are going to get me in trouble."
• Rand has visions of Trollocs attacking Emond's Field -- in the way they do later, wave on wave of them.
• Does Fain have some kind of power over Machin Shin?

Ch 34

• Thom has had so much heartbreak in his life.
• Fain's confidence that he will easily get away from Turok with the dagger makes me giggle.
• Do the Seanchan not plot against Emperors? Or just against others in the line of succession?

Ch 35

• How does Mat know the Aiel are searching for Rand?
• The Ogier system of marriage sounds uncomfortably familiar, if gender-reversed.

Ch 36

• Trayal is so sad.
• Mat, Perrin, and Rand all jump to keep Loial in their crew.
• Does Rand eventually see Loial safely back to Stedding Shangtai? (I've forgotten where Loial was at the end of the Last Battle.)
• Loial & Erith <3

Ch 37

• Why was Ingtar so reluctant to go to Toman Head?
• Wouldn't Nynaeve have to die or leave Emond's Field for Egwene to become Wisdom (from Rand's other lives)?
• Verin: "I never thought I..." WHAT?? Wouldn't be Black? Wouldn't turn rogue Black? What???
• Poor Mat.
• Perrin: "We don't have many choices, do we, Rand? Whatever happens, whatever we do, some things are almost always the same." Did he always become a Wolfbrother?
• Perrin refuses Healing from Verin -- distrust leftover from his other lives?

Ch 38

• Min seees danger around Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve -- it's Liandrin.
• Elayne is so naive with her talk of adventure.

Ch 39

• Tower initiates are allowed to keep the clothes they bring to the Tower, if not wear them. Why? That seems rather cruel, actually. And with as long as they're in the Tower and unable to wear anything but Novice or Accepted dresses, what good will the old dresses do?
• Elayne and Min -- Was it Liandrin's plan to have them killed?
• Women channelers in the Ways have some sense of the taint on saidin.
• Min: "I don't know that any man is worth this." Did she see that she had to go?

Ch 40

• The Tower is dwindling in population because the Aes Sedai don't seek out channelers and encourage them down a certain path. Look at the Aiel; any channeler must become a Wise One. Atha'an Miere? They become Windfinders. Seanchan? Damane/sul'dam. Those cultures are actively watching and seeking out channelers to train them, where the Aes Sedai sit back and allow people to come to them.
• Towers of Midnight -- what are these?.
• Nynaeve: "One wore a collar, but the other was chained as surely as she."
• There was some discussion somewhere in this thread about the ter'angreal and Nynaeve thinking about it. It's here, at the very end, and she thinks 'spoken while holding', not 'spoken while in'.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

• Few women are strong enough to use the female Choedan Kal: Moiraine, Suian, Elaida, Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve. We can probably add Aviendha to that list, though we haven't been introduced yet.
• Rand is stronger than Logain.

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I don't know how Verin would know that, but it is possible. The couple in training Verin mentioned could have included Theodrin and Faolin. Though as she thinks Logain wouldn't be strong enough and Logain is stronger than all the women she named (in some cases, much stronger), I don't think we can take her word for it

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Rhed al'Tere said:

• There was some discussion somewhere in this thread about the ter'angreal and Nynaeve thinking about it. It's here, at the very end, and she thinks 'spoken while holding', not 'spoken while in'.

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This is very interesting, Mother, as I'm holding my copy of the book (from library, in English, published before Winter's Heart has been out) right here, and it says clearly in the end of chapter 40 "oaths spoken inside a ter'angreal that bound her to keep them". This must be a different (earlier?) copy.

//edit: I just need to add a picture here, otherwise I would feel like I'm going insane.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Rhed al'Tere said:

• Perrin refuses Healing from Verin -- distrust leftover from his other lives?

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Actually, I think it was Rand who refused healing:

When Mat blinked and stood up-he still looked ill, but he moved sprly-she put her hands on Perrin. Rand backed away when she reached for him.
"Don't be foolish," she told him.
"I don't want your help," he said quietly. "Or any Aes Sedai help."

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And yeah, it makes sense that Perrin couldn't escape being a wolfbrother in the other worlds. Although I guess we don't know exactly how it would've been if he'd never met Elyas. Presumably, he still would start feeling an affinity with the wolves and increased perceptions, but wouldn't necessarily know what it meant. Just like how Rand couldn't escape his ability to channel in his other lives, Perrin apparently couldn't escape his wolfbrother...ness.



Iria, mine (ebook version) also says "holding a ter'angreal". That's odd that different versions have that part differently. :scratch

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Iria Saronin said:

I don't recall any Seanchan towers being mentioned there... What have I missed here?

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You didn't miss anything at all - the title of ToM is just grossly misleading.

Rhed al'Tere said:

How does Mat know the Aiel are searching for Rand?

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From the meeting with Urien in Ch. 28 and drawing his own conlusions.

Rhed al'Tere said:

Does Rand eventually see Loial safely back to Stedding Shangtai? (I've forgotten where Loial was at the end of the Last Battle.)

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Both Loial & (presumably) Erith make it home after the LB - at least, he really writes his book.

Rhed al'Tere said:

Why was Ingtar so reluctant to go to Toman Head?

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Maybe just because it was so far off?

Rhed al'Tere said:

what good will the old dresses do?

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They didn't yet have fashion changes every season.

Rhed al'Tere said:

Elayne and Min -- Was it Liandrin's plan to have them killed?

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Quite likely.

Rhed al'Tere said:

The Tower is dwindling in population because the Aes Sedai don't seek out channelers and encourage them down a certain path. Look at the Aiel; any channeler must become a Wise One. Atha'an Miere? They become Windfinders. Seanchan? Damane/sul'dam. Those cultures are actively watching and seeking out channelers to train them, where the Aes Sedai sit back and allow people to come to them.

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The AS need a thorough reform of their habitual ways. We will see Egwene give some impulses - will Cadsuane carry that on? And after Cadsuane?

@Iria Saronin: There were numerous changes in the text with new editions - encyclopaedia-wot lists some of them, though not this one.
It's almost impossible to track the paperback editions - mine (2k +) on the same page also says "holding" - probably Jordan or someone on the team stumbled over "inside"and evened the contradiction out.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Iria Saronin said:

This is very interesting, Mother, as I'm holding my copy of the book (from library, in English, published before Winter's Heart has been out) right here, and it says clearly in the end of chapter 40 "oaths spoken inside a ter'angreal that bound her to keep them". This must be a different (earlier?) copy.

//edit: I just need to add a picture here, otherwise I would feel like I'm going insane.

Spoiler

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The audiobook also has "oaths spoken inside a ter'angreal." Very strange.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Thank you, murun, for lessening my confusion with facts!

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

The world's that might be intrigue me. In some of them, the Last Battle is decades later. Would those possibilities still exist after the actual Last Battle? From what Verin says, if the Dark One is free in one World he is free in all and if he is imprisoned in one he is imprisoned in, so probably not. Does it also mean that there is some other link between the Dark One and the Dragon? Moridin save Rand in Shadar Logoth, claiming important plans required him to live, but what were they? Why didn't the Seals weaken in those other worlds?

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

That's interesting, that different versions have different wording! My copy is from just before book 9 came out.

Kassina: You're right, it's Rand. Makes that scene replay differently in my head.

Murun, re: old dresses: Maybe they didn't have seasonal fashion changes in the Two Rivers, or even in Baerlon. But I'd bet anything that fashions changed like the wind in Caemlyn, or Cairhien, or Tear or Illian. Besides, it's not totally about fashion. Bodies change over a course of years -- a course of decades, if the novice is slow to learn -- and wool gets motheaten and fabric breaks down if it's just left hanging around or stored in trunks.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

I am so behind. D: I guess I need to catch up. I actually don't really like the last portion of TGH though, I think that's why I haven't been reading it as much.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

I forgot how quickly everything resolves at the end of this book. It's a huge lead up and the BOOM it is all over. It's kind of disappointing to me. :\

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Yeah, I just don't really like everything that happens in Falme for some reason. That might be part of it. I am on chapter 45 now though, so I'm not as far behind as I thought I was.

I find it interesting that Verin lies to Rand by telling him the damane would be able to sense him channeling, when she has to know that women can't sense men channeling. I guess technically she feels "one might feel a woman-- or a man-- channeling" but still. She's pretty clearly deliberately leading Rand to believe he shouldn't channel in Falme. I can't decide if that counts as enough of a true lie to show even this early that she's Black Ajah.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

It could totally be a lie.

It could also be a coded warning to Rand. Also, the Seanchan are totally foreign, and they have a'dam. What else might they have to detect channeling? So while it could be a lie, I think it's more likely caution.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

@ Leira and Mai... I'm the opposite! I still remember getting to chapter 46 the very first time I read this and going "THIS is what I expected last book!" It was so thrilling to me to see the three boys each taking a role (Mat the trumpeter, Perrin the bannerman, Rand the Dragon Reborn leading the charge between them) with the legendary heroes and the enemy armies surrounding them.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Megana Vallentin said:

@ Leira and Mai... I'm the opposite! I still remember getting to chapter 46 the very first time I read this and going "THIS is what I expected last book!" It was so thrilling to me to see the three boys each taking a role (Mat the trumpeter, Perrin the bannerman, Rand the Dragon Reborn leading the charge between them) with the legendary heroes and the enemy armies surrounding them.

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That part IS really cool but it is over in a blink. THAT is what bugs me. :grumble

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

I just finished it and yeah, it's like wait I thought it just started.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Rhed al'Tere said:

It could also be a coded warning to Rand. Also, the Seanchan are totally foreign, and they have a'dam. What else might they have to detect channeling? So while it could be a lie, I think it's more likely caution.

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Wasn't it a male a'dam that had to have 2 female controlling the male? That was thrown at the sea?

Megana Vallentin said:

@ Leira and Mai... I'm the opposite! I still remember getting to chapter 46 the very first time I read this and going "THIS is what I expected last book!" It was so thrilling to me to see the three boys each taking a role (Mat the trumpeter, Perrin the bannerman, Rand the Dragon Reborn leading the charge between them) with the legendary heroes and the enemy armies surrounding them.

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Yea, I was smiling when I read this part where each took their role

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Rhed al'Tere said:

It could totally be a lie.

It could also be a coded warning to Rand. Also, the Seanchan are totally foreign, and they have a'dam. What else might they have to detect channeling? So while it could be a lie, I think it's more likely caution.

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She says "sense" rather than "detect", which might just be semantics, but it might also be her saying something that isn't true. We do know from later that any time she says anything ambiguous, she runs it over in her head to make sure she can justify it as the truth, but that is with Aes Sedai, rather than normal folk.

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: TGH Chapters 45-50

Ok, thoughts on chapters 45-50:

The damane put a shaking hand to her throat, but before the woman in the lightning-marked dress had time to move, the damane turned and punched her in the face

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:joy Go damane! :joy

-Before Ingtar dies, he talks about letting someone in to Fal Dara and that person shot the arrow at Rand/Siuan. Was it just a random darkfriend? :scratch

"I know, Ingtar." Rand drew a deep breath. "The Light shine on you, Lord Ingtar of House Shinowa, and may you shelter in the palm of the Creator's hand." He touched Ingtar's shoulder. "The last embrace of the mother welcome you home." Hurin gasped.

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:cry

When Mat blows the horn, it says that Perrin looked as if he knew what it meant. Could the horn and its effects be something that he saw in the alternate worlds?

When Rand sees the heroes of the horn, he says he sees different names attached to them:

Michael instead of Mikel. Patrick instead of Paedrig. Oscar instead of Otarin.

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Another hint about it actually being our world.

When the heroes come back, Hawkwing says "We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon."
I found that interesting, especially since it means they never really acknowledged or even seemed to care that it was Mat who blew the horn (Ba'alzamon then makes that mistake later, assuming it had to have been Rand). It's also a hint that maybe what some people say is false. Maybe the Horn doesn't actually have to follow whoever blows it. i.e. even if Fain blew the horn, that wouldn't necessarily mean the heroes would fight for him if Rand was nearby.

-I loved Hawkwing telling Hurin he might be bound to the horn one day.

-It's amazing how long it takes for Rand to realize that Ba'alzamon isn't the Dark One. He's still sure that this time he killed the Dark One. Moiraine is confused, though, that he would have enough power to appear in the sky above Falme, but not to do anything else.

-When Min's taking care of Rand, she thinks that it would be nice for things to be simple "like being shipwrecked with no food and a dozen hungry Aielmen" Do people think the Aiel are cannibals?

-I liked Moiraine quickly changing the subject when the topic of Verin's lie comes up. She's confused that Verin would say Moiraine had sent her and then immediately changes the subject to Fain.

-Masema starts... being Masema. :rolleyes It is incredible how quickly he did a 180 on Rand.