The trap I never expected Jordan(son) to step into! [SPOILERS!]

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People had always been told that balefire had no counter, even the DO couldn't reach beyond it.

In this sense, I believe this goes in line with everyone saying gentling/severing couldn't be Healed. Nynaeve got right down to it but it did take quite a bit of thought and moments and pages and chapters (even books?). I feel lots of the action in this book is quite fast (obviously) with things happening at light-speed by WoT standards (Perrin crying, sleeping, dreaming, finding Faile, anyone?).

I think this goes in the same line but in a fast forward mode. Maybe with 1 or 2 more books, this could have had more "screen" time?

What are your thoughts?
 
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In this sense, I believe this goes in line with everyone saying gentling/severing couldn't be Healed. Nynaeve got right down to it but it did take quite a bit of thought and moments and pages and chapters (even books?). I feel lots of the action in this book is quite fast (obviously) with things happening at light-speed by WoT standards (Perrin crying, sleeping, dreaming, finding Faile, anyone?).

I think this goes in the same line but in a fast forward mode. Maybe with 1 or 2 more books, this could have had more "screen" time?

What are your thoughts?

With one or two more books, we all would have crucified Tor.
 
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The problem is Harriet either can't edit, or is too soft to give RJ the hard word and take the red pen to his waffle.

I mean there is one passage in (CoT) that jumps out to me in particular.


Washing the silk was time-consuming. The buckets of water they fetched from the cistern pumps were icy cold, but hot water scooped from the copper kettle brought the temperature in the washtubs up to lukewarm. You could not wash silk in hot water. Sinking your hands into the washtubs felt wonderful in the cold, but you always had to take them out again, and then the cold was twice as bitter. There was no soap, not that was mild enough any*way, so each skirt and blouse had to be submersed one by one and delicately scrubbed against itself. Then it was laid on a piece of toweling and gently rolled up to squeeze out as much water as possible. The damp garment was dipped again, in another wash-tub that was filled with a mixture of vinegar and water – that reduced fading and enhanced the gloss of the silk – then rolled up in toweling again. The wet toweling was wrung out hard and spread in the sun to dry wherever there was room, while each piece of silk was hung on a horizontal pole, slung in the shade of a rough canvas pavilion erected at the edge of the square, and smoothed by hand to rub out wrinkles. With luck, nothing would need ironing. Both of them knew how silk had to be cared for, but ironing it needed experience neither of them had. None of Sevanna’s gai’shain did, not even Maighdin, though she had been a lady’s maid even before entering Faile’s service, but Sevanna did not accept excuses. Every time Faile or Alliandre went to hang another garment, they checked those already there and smoothed any that seemed to need it.

Would you just look at that block of text about washing some bloody silk, nearly 300 words of pure waffle that should have been removed.


Removing things like that would have had these books finished years ago, and still left time to cover things in depth and not miss things out.
 
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I have to agree with you Axis. It's text like that, that takes up too much of our time and slows down the reading. RJ is a genius at writing and will always be one of my favorites if not THE favorite author. He gives you all the little details, but some of it like that text is pretty much worthless and doesn't add to the story imho.
 
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I also agree. I've heard jokes that you can read every third page and not miss a thing plot-wise, which is pretty close to true with all the details Jordan adds in. Despite this, he's still one of my all-time favorite authors.
 
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Well technicaly cutting all those things during the edit process wouldn't shorten the writing process AT ALL, since it was already writen. It might not even shortsn the editing process :look:
 

Morrighan Daghdera

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Ah, you & that text, Axis. *sigh* I rather enjoyed reading passages, even that one, that showed how Faile & Alliandre learned to respect the Aiel. After all, Faile eventually trusted the Aiel Dreamwalkers about Masema & slit his throat when needed. Would she have had the necessary respect for the culture to do so without first having to live up to their standards of caring for something as simple as fabric? :arch
 
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Ah, you & that text, Axis. *sigh* I rather enjoyed reading passages, even that one, that showed how Faile & Alliandre learned to respect the Aiel. After all, Faile eventually trusted the Aiel Dreamwalkers about Masema & slit his throat when needed. Would she have had the necessary respect for the culture to do so without first having to live up to their standards of caring for something as simple as fabric? :arch

300 words are a lot of words to describe that process.
 

Raeviendha al'Toma

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That's one of the things I really like about these books though.... the descriptive passages make me "see" what is going on and actually experience in my mind what's going on. It may be wordy, but I love the descriptions of the clothes, the situations, the sights and sounds, everything.
 

Morrighan Daghdera

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Thank you, Raeviendha. :fistbump 300 words does not seem like much in the grand scheme of things of learning to respect other cultures, imo.
 

Raeviendha al'Toma

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Thank you, Raeviendha. :fistbump 300 words does not seem like much in the grand scheme of things of learning to respect other cultures, imo.

I've got your back Morrighan Sedai! :hug
 

Eluial Aldaran

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Eh, I agree with Axis Gaidin. Whether or not that particular passage should have been included can be debated til the cows come home, but in general RJ included way too much bloat in the books. There's probably at least 1-2 books worth of extra stuff littered all throughout the series (I'm looking at you, Perrin/Faile/Shaido story arc).

I mean, there's a fine line between not enough fluff -- where the story just ends up being a series of events and nothing more -- and too much fluff, where everything seems very dragged out and Dickensian (paid by installments, anyone?). I think RJ always erred on the side of too much.
 
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Eh, I agree with Axis Gaidin. Whether or not that particular passage should have been included can be debated til the cows come home, but in general RJ included way too much bloat in the books. There's probably at least 1-2 books worth of extra stuff littered all throughout the series (I'm looking at you, Perrin/Faile/Shaido story arc).

I mean, there's a fine line between not enough fluff -- where the story just ends up being a series of events and nothing more -- and too much fluff, where everything seems very dragged out and Dickensian (paid by installments, anyone?). I think RJ always erred on the side of too much.

Hell, CoS through CoT could likely have been squeezed into two books, and we would have missed nothing of importance.
 

Jaryd Kosari

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I actually think CoS and PoD should be separate, but WH, CoT, and even KoD could have been condensed into one easily.
 
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I think in some ways it was foreshadowed, to a point. As others have said, the whole series has been about Balance. Also, I found quite a lot of the book (and perhaps even ToM) repeatedly mentioned how when it came to violence/warfare, although they were more proficient in the Power, the Aes Sedai of the AoL just didn't really have a clue. When they realised what balefire did, it was more an "Oh heck, don't use that!" reaction, rather than any consideration that there may be a counter to it. It's also been repeatedly said through the series how good Egwene was at coming up with new weaves (or rediscovering old ones), so it made sense that if anyone would come up with a way to counter balefire, it'd be her. Well, that's what I think with hindsight anyway. At the time of reading it, I was a bit "WTF?! Not Egwene!". But then, she'd have been miserable without Gawyn anyway :(

Since she was the one who rediscovered the making of cuendillar, and was the best at it, it makes sense that she would be the one to put the pieces together.
 
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So, it was already mentioned, but yeah, Flame of Tar Valon. I mean, given that we've known for so long that "Watcher of the Seals" isn't just an empty title, it seems reasonable to assume "Flame of Tar Valon" isn't either. Not that I had any idea what it was actually referring to until the end, of course, but not all foreshadowing needs to be obvious or able to be figured out (IMO).

Also, Perrin "counters" balefire in TAR, which totally shatters the unavoidable destruction reputation it had for so long.

Finally, just before she uses it as anti-balefire, she seals the cracks with it (already mentioned here as well).

I'm by no means saying I saw it coming, but in hindsight I can see it. And that's good enough for me. I like not having every last detail figured out before it happens.

Totally agree with you! Its fun and good mental exercise to have to meditate and be forced to reread the books in order to put these things together.
 
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Yes, that whole thing felt really odd to me. The entire time it I was reading that part, I was like "this is out of place. since when do weaves have an opposite?" It felt totally NOT Jordan. There are a few times when Sanderson sticks out like a sore thumb in the books he wrote, and this is one of them. It was sudden, brief, and just wrong.

BUT, I did expect something like this from the moment the black cracks started appearing, but I thought it would be some sort of new Healing. Just the way it came about was really off-putting.
 
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Even though Egwene's death was really hurtful, I have to agree that it was also beautiful. Her finding of The Flame of Tar Valon was pure instinct and it was just the opposite of Balefire. There is always the opposite of something. And Balefire, we could see it as evil (since they were the ones to use it during the battle) is the opposite of Egwene's new weave. Light always penetrates darkness (this is one of the main ideas in Transcendentalism) and that was what happened.
 
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