Seanchans are scums!

[Slynese]

I really dislike the seanchan. How can they enslave women simply because they can channel?

And Tuon is a hypocrite! She can channel and still she enslaves others who can channel and make no move to get rid of damane.

The seanchans are nuts!

 

[Lyndo Shiranui]

Yeah, I hate Seanchans too, and I don't like Tuon even a bit.

 

[Kil Cauthyran]

The Seanchan were corrupted by the Shadow, I'm not sure they're scum. I don't like Tuon's defense of collaring channelers, but this has been their custom for (as far as we know) thousands of years. I think with more interaction with channelers on an even playing field, we've seen some of them change their views.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Yeah, The Seanchan's treatment of channelers are awful, but many parts of their culture are quite good. They are a rigid almost caste like society, but it does give their people stability. Just look at how they treat the people they conquered. The Taraboners are part of their military. The Tinkers are safe in their society. And yes, they have slavery, but slaves can actually raise up to high ranking positions and they have many rights.
So, yeah, I have hope that with Min and Mat by her side, the Seanchan, with Tuon leading can be open for change and better treatment of channelers.

 

[Ephrem Elpidius]

Yeah, The Seanchan's treatment of channelers are awful, but many parts of their culture are quite good. They are a rigid almost caste like society, but it does give their people stability. Just look at how they treat the people they conquered. The Taraboners are part of their military. The Tinkers are safe in their society. And yes, they have slavery, but slaves can actually raise up to high ranking positions and they have many rights.
So, yeah, I have hope that with Min and Mat by her side, the Seanchan, with Tuon leading can be open for change and better treatment of channelers.

I am doing my re-read of the eye of the world right now, and when Rand meets The Dark One for the first time in the dream world in book 1, The Dark One tells Rand that he told Artur Hawking to hate the Aes Sedai, and made his last words be "Destroy the White Tower"... so it seems there is no reason to hate the Seanchan at all, it is not their fault they enslave the ones who can channel, it is simply part of the Dark One's plan all along and/or could be interpreted as the Dark One's influence in a general sense that led to this culture being so ingrained then perhaps it would have been.

Artur Hawking being such a large figure in history and time, his words carried weight, and the Dark One was tainting those words at the end. This is how I understand it though now.

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

The first a'dam was made by Deain Sedai, a Seanchan woman who wanted to assist Luthair Paendrag Mondwin in his consolidation of the continent by giving him an instrument to control female channellers who opposed him. She was later collared herself by an a'dam, and it is said that her screams "shook the Towers of Midnight".[ While the exact timing of this event is unclear, it must have occurred in Luthair's lifetime, so sometime in the latter days of the Free Years calendar.

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

At the time of its invention, the fact that Sul'dam could learn to channel was common knowledge, but this knowledge was either deliberately erased or slowly forgotten over time. The Seanchan believe that only those women who are born with the spark can channel. Ironically, while damane are viewed as dangerous, subhuman property to be controlled, sul'dam are valued and well-regarded members of society due to their skill in working with the women who actually wield the One Power.

The rediscovery of the Sul'dam's ability to channel by certain members of Seanchan society (including some sul'dam) at the end of the Third Age has the potential to rock their society to the core.[4] However, as of the beginning of the Fourth Age, this information has not yet been widely disseminated

 

[Merena Orithana]

Yeah, I hate Seanchans too, and I don't like Tuon even a bit.

Agreed - I know that she and the rest of the Seanchan did change a bit for the better over the course of the books, but they still start so low. Not a fan.

 

[Ephrem Elpidius]

The first a'dam was made by Deain Sedai, a Seanchan woman who wanted to assist Luthair Paendrag Mondwin in his consolidation of the continent by giving him an instrument to control female channellers who opposed him. She was later collared herself by an a'dam, and it is said that her screams "shook the Towers of Midnight".[ While the exact timing of this event is unclear, it must have occurred in Luthair's lifetime, so sometime in the latter days of the Free Years calendar.

Interesting... wait wait wait... I thought Artur Hawking founded the Seanchan Empire? He took all those people when he fled the mainland, and Seanchan was founded, with him at the helm, so if he started all this, and The Dark One was the one whispering to him how bad channeling was... technically the Seanchan would not be bad for this correct? Cause it would not be there fault, the Dark One's manipulation of their leader led to that culture.

Please advise... cause now my head hurts LOL

also, I love your quite... 'Braid Tugging Consultation' LOL omg that's too much :rofl

 

[Hal Bahalla]

He took all those people when he fled the mainland, and Seanchan was founded, with him at the helm,

Arthur sent his son Luthar with soldiers to conquer the land that was Seanchan. There were people there already, who were parts of independent nations, waring among themselves. Luthair and company slowly conquered all the other nations and people, creating a single empire.

 

[Ephrem Elpidius]

Arthur sent his son Luthar with soldiers to conquer the land that was Seanchan. There were people there already, who were parts of independent nations, waring among themselves. Luthair and company slowly conquered all the other nations and people, creating a single empire.

oh right, wow I had forgotten all about that... lol ty for clarifying.

hmm I guess the Dark One isn't to blame then, just terrible humans... I'm not sure what this means ethically LOL

 

[Linkelivar Miou'Mai]

Would we be calling them bad if the a'dam worked on Men instead of Women, with the added bonus of shielding the man from the taint on Saidin?
It would have prevented the breaking of the world had it been created earlier, although Male Aes Sedai would be leashed and collared

 

[Ephrem Elpidius]

Would we be calling them bad if the a'dam worked on Men instead of Women, with the added bonus of shielding the man from the taint on Saidin?
It would have prevented the breaking of the world had it been created earlier, although Male Aes Sedai would be leashed and collared

Wouldn't that require men who can channel to also be the equivalent of the female version to control the collared ones? Otherwise, you might as well just Still them with the Red Ajah if you don't intend to use their power anyway. I suppose Stilling resulted in death or madness though too from what I can remember...

You present an interesting proposal though... I am not sure. If females could use the One Power from a special kind of collar only meant for males... now that would be an interesting plot twist storyline haha

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Would we be calling them bad if the a'dam worked on Men instead of Women, with the added bonus of shielding the man from the taint on Saidin?

Yes, it would still be bad. If there was an a'dam way to shield a man from the taint on saidin, this would mean there is a way to heal or at least conceal the taint, therefore the Aes Sedai/other channelers could heal and/or remove it in general (which is found later in the books as possible) , so leashing and/or gentling the men would not be neccessary.

I hope that made sense But this is what I think the Red Ajah's actual purpose should have been - finding a way to remove the taint on saidin and not gentling the men :rolleyes

Ironically, while damane are viewed as dangerous, subhuman property to be controlled, sul'dam are valued and well-regarded members of society due to their skill in working with the women who actually wield the One Power.

This is what doesn't make sense to me. If damane cannot be trusted with having their powers, why would you trust a sul'dam with it? The sul'dam can make the damane do anything therefore can use the power to attack others too :facepalm If you can make sul'dam servants who use the damane's power to your advantage, you can easily make those same damane be obedient in the same way and responsible with their power.
But I do think it all stems from Hawkwing's hate towards Aes Sedai, aka the only known channelers at the time, so if he was afraid of them, he wouldn't trust them and would want them collared.

The first a'dam was made by Deain Sedai, a Seanchan woman who wanted to assist Luthair Paendrag Mondwin

This seems wrong, she cannot have been "a Seanchan woman" AND an Aes Sedai right? :scratch

ETA: I see you've copied this from a source and it's not your actual words, Linkelivar, I just wanted to point it out

Edit again: Wait, why TF was there an Aes Sedai with Luthair in Seanchan?

 

[Ephrem Elpidius]

Edit again: Wait, why TF was there an Aes Sedai with Luthair in Seanchan?

We need the Resident Historian to save the day... I also would like to know this.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Aes Sedai was a title from the Age of Legends. Thus, the local people who lived in Seanchan before Luthair Paendrag arrived also had Aes Sedai. In fact, I think it is stated somewhere that the Aes Sedai often ruled over the smaller kingdoms that was in Seanchan.

 

[Ephrem Elpidius]

Aes Sedai was a title from the Age of Legends. Thus, the local people who lived in Seanchan before Luthair Paendrag arrived also had Aes Sedai. In fact, I think it is stated somewhere that the Aes Sedai often ruled over the smaller kingdoms that was in Seanchan.

That's interesting, maybe they abused their power a little too much, and that is why Luthair decided to chain them... I really wish Robert Jordan had written those two other prequels! So much I want to know haha

 

[Arella Mathara]

This is what doesn't make sense to me. If damane cannot be trusted with having their powers, why would you trust a sul'dam with it? The sul'dam can make the damane do anything therefore can use the power to attack others too :facepalm

In order to make the people agree to atrocities like genocide and slavery, you need to create a "us" and "the other", a "us vs them" mentality. In Seanchan the damane are seen as an other, not human. While the sul'dam are seen as a part of the "us", thus they are human and they can be trusted.

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Huh, I didn't realize they might have had Aes Sedai in Seanchan before the arrival of Luthair... infact I never thought of Seanchan as a place that has also existed during AoL This raises more questions in my mind now

I should have read more carefuly in the BWB:
"Aes Sedai, who made open use of their power, formed temporary alliances with one another, as when following one of their number who had achieved a throne, but in reality it was every woman for herself, all scheming and plotting for advancement. Indeed, this was the way of everyone, not just Aes Sedai, throughout Seanchan. Those few who were truly faithful to their word were considered fools. Assassination was the most common cause of death among Aes Sedai, and among all who achieved power."

This gives a lot more context as to why the channelers on the other side of the ocean should have been constrained in some way and couldn't be trusted. They seem to have been very different than the White Tower.

"The first a’dam was made by an Aes Sedai, Deain, who brought it to Luthair Paendrag in an attempt to curry favor with him. She knew he had no Aes Sedai in his armies, and for the most part the Aes Sedai hated him. Deain believed that Luthair would eventually win and felt that she would be richly rewarded for bringing him a gift that could hand him the Power of the Aes Sedai, willing or not."

While still not mentioned where Deain is from, I think it is implied that she must indeed be a Seanchan Aes Sedai, who just wanted to gain power, just like the rest

 

[Merena Orithana]

That's interesting, maybe they abused their power a little too much, and that is why Luthair decided to chain them... I really wish Robert Jordan had written those two other prequels! So much I want to know haha

So it is mentioned that Artur was influenced by the Dark One to hate Aes Sedai and want to bring them down. I'm pretty sure Luthair got that from his dad, versus anything he experienced in Seanchan.

It is good to know where the Aes Sedai came from that was with Luthair - I guess they could have also traveled across the ocean to him to offer the new ter'angreal??