Re-Readalong: Crossroads of Twilight, To the End!

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Rhed al'Tere, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    In my opinion, the chapter, CHAPTERS, about So Habor is among the most pointless ones in the entire series. Two chapters about going to buy food... If that had to be shown, to show how the world is unravelling or whatever, it could have been done with a lot less words. :| Like everything else in this book :|
     
  2. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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  3. Imzadi Hopewind

    Imzadi Hopewind Aes Sedai

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    Someone give me more time? I need to get time to read this book! And also all the other books I've borrowed from library!! :shifty I'll begin at chapter 19, and that's far behind the end :giggle
     
  4. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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  5. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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    It is a refreshing break from that plot into a side plot of a town that hasn't flushed a toilet or taken a shower for an entire winter.
     
  6. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    .. And that does in no way furthen the plot or drive the book forward...
     
  7. Ryu Shadowborn

    Ryu Shadowborn Resident Citizen

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    The only thing that drives the plot forward in this book is Mat :p
     
  8. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Yeah, it doesn't drive the plot forward, but I at least find it interesting! I actually wanted to read that chapter when I remembered what it was, unlike any Perrin chapter right now. :| There are so many chapters in this book that don't really drive the plot forward that one that's at least driving me to read more stands out. :lol

    Also, I'm reading Libriomancer and there's a character named Chesa. :lol I couldn't not think of Egwene's maid!
     
  9. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Egwene has a lot of talking about things that never happen, and then ends with a HUGE cliffhanger. Thanks for that Jordan :rolleyes At least we do have the next book, so we know what happens :p Can you imagine reading this book where almost nothing happens, just to have the book end at the moment it gets a little exciting?
     
  10. Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak

    Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak Aes Sedai Forum Moderator

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    I remember doing exactly that. I read this book when it was first released and I was NOT happy at the end. :lol
     
  11. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Lucky for me, the next book was out before I started reading the series :look
     
  12. Leira Galene

    Leira Galene Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah Forum Moderator

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    I... still haven't started this. :look
     
  13. Aduiavas Ida

    Aduiavas Ida Aes Sedai Mistress of Revels - Europe Forum Moderator

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    Skip to the next one. You won't miss much :p
     
  14. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    :rofl
     
  15. Kassina Tendar

    Kassina Tendar Aes Sedai

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    Chapter 24:
    -Rand is so out-of-touch with the Black Tower that he doesn’t even realize Logain’s at the Black Tower, let alone an Asha’man.
    -Bashere and Logain are awkward around each other. They came together, but they’re obviously just tolerating each other. It’s probably wariness around male channelers on Bashere’s part (and someone who claimed to be the Dragon at that!), but why does Logain not like Bashere?
    -Min see something dark around Davram Bashere and that something bad will happen if he turns against Rand or dies. Foreshadowing Graendal’s Compulsion on him and how they stop it just in time.
    -Loial!! :joy
    -There will be nine unwatched Waygates. :facepalm Come on now, Ogier. It doesn’t hurt to just send one person at a time to watch them even if you think it’s probably BS. :|
    -Loial thinks that Min does everything that Rand says. Lots of misunderstandings in Wheel of Time, between genders, cultures, and species… and this time we get a misunderstanding that comes from all three! Very Robert Jordan. :p
    -Min thinks Erith will ‘skin Loial out like a sick goat’. Ummm… What are you doing with sick goats, Min? :scratch :blink
    -What does Loial need to tell Rand about the Aes Sedai who came with them? :scratch
    -Cadsuane isn’t sure whether to stop Rand from meeting with the Seanchan or not.
    -Logain tells Rand all about what Taim’s doing at the Black Tower. It sounds super sketchy. Logain tells Rand he needs to return before the Black Tower splits, with most people loyal to Taim… Rand is dumb and ignores him. :desk I realize he has other important stuff to do, but a village full of men who can channel controlled by someone you don’t trust… that really can’t be ignored.
    -Logain doesn’t believe Rand cleansed Saidin. I guess he thinks it just… happened?
    -We get a glimpse of WoT theology through Lews Therin.
    -We learn why Elza is so dedicated to Rand: She needs him to survive so that he can die to the Dark One in the Last Battle.

    Chapter 25:
    -Perrin finally realizes that Berelain is actually good to have around. He’s glad to have someone he can talk to about missing Faile.
    -Aram gets increasingly unstable. Perrin is wise to not want to bring him with him to So Habor… but not so wise to be ignoring him as much as he is. :facepalm He does tell Dannil to watch Aram, though.
    -Balwer has contacts in So Habor (or he doesn’t and just hopes to do general snooping) and brings some Cha Faile people with him to snoop as well.
    -Perrin’s finally ‘beginning’ to suspects something’s up with Balwer.
    -Perrin notices that Neald is weirdly happy. He attributes it to them finding the Shaido, but he’s probably just giddy about Saidin being clean!

    Chapter 26:
    -And ghosts in So Habor. I do like the bubble of evil chapters. I agree the bubbles of evil can get a bit weird later, but I at least always like reading about them!
    -Perrin considers leaving So Habor after noticing how weird things are, but Berelain is right that they really don’t have a choice.
    -Masuri and Seonid wander off to figure out what’s going on.
    -So, is it just me or do people in WoT snap their mouths shut ‘with an audible’ click a lot? I swear I’ve never heard this in real life. :blink Is this secretly super common and I’ve just never noticed?
    -The merchants at So Habor, even scared as they are, are trying to get money where they can, assuing him they sell only the finest.
    -Seonid asks Perrin to leave one of the Aes Sedai in So Habor to see if they can help. I mean, it’s very unlikely that they could help, but I do feel for them here. They just want to help the people in this town, but Perrin’s so single-minded on Faile that he refuses to let them. :( And he’s clear in his reasoning, too. The only reason he won’t let them stay is that he wants more people to help him get Faile out. Who cares that people are dying here? :rolleyes

    Chapter 27:
    -Berelain does make the valid point, though, that it’s Lord Cowlin’s responsibility. I do like Berelain. She is an excellent ruler.
    -So why are Annoura and Masuri meeting with Masema? Do we ever learn?
    -Aram almost eager to torture the Shaido.
    -And Perrin chops a man’s hand off… which doesn’t really work as intended. Instead, he threatens the Shaido in a way that works: forcing him to beg in a Wetlander town.
    -And we have Perrin abandoning his axe. I know we’re supposed to care about his axe vs. hammer debate… and there are parts of it that are really cool… but it just goes back and forth enough that I kinda don’t care most of the time. :cheese
    -Perrin is going to be teaming up with Seanchan with damane.

    Chapter 28:
    -Thom can’t stop reading the letter from Moiraine.
    -Mat worries, rightfully so, that ‘Thera’ is a big threat to their safety. She’s way to scared of any Seanchan and wouldn’t really have the willpower to hide secrets from them probably. Juilin refuses to see it, though.
    -Noal suggests killing Amathera. :blink :blink Well then.
    -The Seanchan settlers have heard stories of Aiel and they’re terrified.
    -Mat doesn’t believe any of the stories Noal tells.
    -Noal recites some prophecy for us, about Mat. Even Mat’s randomly purchased signet ring is part of the prophecy. (not that we didn’t know it was significant before now)
    -The fancy necklace Mat bought is discarded by Tuon, called a shea dancer’s necklace by Selucia, and then used to demote Egeanin. Well done, Mat. :p
    -I do really feel bad for Egeanin. :( She’s now officially Leilwin Shipless.
    -And Tuon and Selucia really make her beg to leave after shaming her and stripping her of her titles.
    -Mat realizes for the first time how much power Tuon has over other Seanchan and just now realizes that he should keep the sul’dam away from her.
    -Mat thinks Tuon’s like a different person when playing Stones. She can relax and just be herself.
    -As much as I hate the Seanchan, and can’t really detach Tuon from that (otherwise she’d probably be one of my favorite characters), I really love Mat and Tuon’s courtship here. :) Mat’s so surprised to realize that Tuon actually sees what he’s doing. Then Tuon suggests that they take regular walks together at night, under the guise of him being her jailer.
    -And just when I’m starting to like Tuon she throws out a sentence like “I train horses and damane.” :rolleyes :mad
    -And Mat learns that he started the Seanchan marriage ceremony from Egeanin. :rofl
    -Tuon and Selucia are sitting on the front of the cart with Seanchan all around. :blink Poor Mat. He’s terrified.
     
  16. Wil Cambrae

    Wil Cambrae Sparkle Chief Gaidin

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    Chapter 24, So we know that Bashere was turned to the Darl One some time before the Last Battle. Reading this chapter I get the feeling it was before this while he was away from Rand for so long. I've only read AMOL once I'm not sure if we do find out when it happens....
     
  17. Leira Galene

    Leira Galene Aes Sedai Head of the Brown Ajah Forum Moderator

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    :lol I might have to do that.
     
  18. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    We see Perrin at his worst ... and he was truly broken ... If any of these "smart" forsaken had presented him with Faile; he would have been tied to the shadow for sure. But away from speculation, the facts are that Perrin was downright stupid in his Faile rescue, from start to end. He missed the chance to bring all the help he needed from Rand by running around in mindless circles. Then he breaks the trust of his Lord, Rand, by working with his enemies, the Seanchan, knowing that he will make those enemies stronger by a few hundred damane! He goes beyond torture to maiming people for life in order to get useless information. And then he deprives Aes Sedai the right to help the people of So Harbor in need of their aid. He doesn't even try to help the town that gave/sold his army the provision it needs.

    Where did this come from? I've never come across any discussion that confirms that Bashere was a darkfriend. My understanding is that Bashere reached out to Logain after his tent was ransacked, and wife injured. And if Bashere was a darkfriend, Graendal would not have had to use compulsion on him during the Last Battle.

    I say that also believing that the battle plans the 4 Great Captains (Bashere included) laid out under Elayne's "supervision" was flawed from the start, and played into the strengths of the Shadow forces. The divided their forces and didn't use their strengths. All the losses suffered by the armies led by Agelmar, Bashere, and Bryne could have been greatly reduced if they had planned half as well as their reputations should have had them do. But we would have had a boring military battle; even an onslaught. But any commander would prefer a boring, inexpensive victory over a risky, flashy division of forces and being goaded into the enemy's trap, which Rand read initially well; but failed to act accordingly.
     
  19. Wil Cambrae

    Wil Cambrae Sparkle Chief Gaidin

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    He wasn't a darkfriend, but was turned to the Dark One in his Dreams.
     
  20. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    Yes; but that happened in AMoL. It didn't happen in CoT, if that's what you meant.