Questions?

Discussion in 'Wheel of Time Discussion - Books 1-14' started by Al'Amar El'Haldir, May 25, 2016.

  1. Polegnyn Nemeara

    Polegnyn Nemeara Aes Sedai

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    That's what I suggested to the person, but apparently it's not an acceptable solution because they are picking out other timeline inconsistencies. lol oh well. This is another reason why I try not to look too closely at fictional writing, especially so when it comes to fantasy :)
     
  2. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    I think I remember people talking about some other timeline inconsistencies; but I don't have specific references. However, it would be nice to see what those are; and try and figure them out. The timeline for a 22-year project by 2 authors can be quite complex :)
     
  3. Polegnyn Nemeara

    Polegnyn Nemeara Aes Sedai

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    That's pretty much what my response to the second inconsistency was :giggle
     
  4. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    :lol .... What was the second inconsistency?
     
  5. Polegnyn Nemeara

    Polegnyn Nemeara Aes Sedai

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    The second "inconsistency":

    I kinda chalk this up to the frequent use of gateways in that latter portion of the series, too.
     
  6. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    That's actually the same inconsistency as the first, only another detail relevant to it. It was the difference in the timelines of the 2 plot lines: Rand's arc and Perrin's arc.
     
  7. Polegnyn Nemeara

    Polegnyn Nemeara Aes Sedai

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    Here's a question about Tarmon Gai'don I've wondered about since first reading AMoL. Why didn't Light-sided channelers just open up gateways parallel to the ground yet super close to trollocs, fades, Sharans to basically behead them with a gateway? I remember one instance of a trolloc falling through a gateway placed on the ground. Yet another way they could have been used to the Light's advantage.

    Or would have been against the rules of war? Certainly would have made far less Light-sided casualties... Though, I guess the Light-side would have had the same issue if the Dark One's forces used the same technique on them.

    My pondering remains though... All this use of gateways yet still so inefficient with them.
     
  8. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    The short of it is that Sanderson and Team Jordan messed up big time. The whole issue of battle tactics and Light side channelers was nerfed down 20 times over. A few notes to consider:

    - An Aiel army of 200-300 thousand simply disappeared from the battle. They were an appendage to Elayne's forces. In theory, they alone (with 1500 wise one channelers) could have demolished any of the Shadow's armies.

    - The Light had thousands of channelers who simply didn't show up for the last battle. In book 10, Rand ordered 2/3 of the Black Tower moved to Illian and Arad Doman. That's at least 700 Asha'man by the Taim's reckoning. The Wise Ones could have easily fielded 1000-1500 channelers from all the clans (some people even suggest as many as 2500-3000 wise ones). The Windfinders of the Sea Folk could have provided several hundred channelers. The Seanchan had at 500-1000 damane (battle ready!). The minimum the Light could have fielded was 3000 channelers; with upside over 4000.

    - My estimate is that the Shadow had a max threshold of 1500 channelers (including sharans).

    - The Light fragmented its forces in its initial battle plan: 4 great captains on 4 fronts. That was STUPID. The Light sent 100,000 cavalry through gateways to save Lan's army. They could have simply used the same gateways to send 300,000 fighters and 1500 channelers to eradicate the army in the Gap, then move and destroy the army in Kandor next day. Then they could have turned Caemlyn into a pile of rubble. They could have done that in a week; and kept Ituralde's army and at least 1000 channelers in reserve in case the Shadow pulled a surprise (Demandred's Sharans). All of this BEFORE Graendhal started messing the heads of the Great Captains :facepalm

    So aside from the misuse of channelers weaves that you mentioned, Polegnyn, the problems with the last battle were much bigger.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
  9. Brandegoris Al'Mor

    Brandegoris Al'Mor Citizen

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    I think maybe the Dark ones forces couldn't get the gateway thing happening because it DOES take a LOT of strength to make big enough gateways AND I would assume that Darkfriend channelers could maybe counter such weaves?
    That's what I choose to believe though! LOL
     
  10. Wil Cambrae

    Wil Cambrae Sparkle Chief Gaidin

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    Remember that some channelers had a Talent for Traveling, and could do different things with it. Like making a portal when they didn't have the strength in the Power to make one normally, or that they could make one where ever they wanted. Most could only make a vertical portal if they had access to enough strength in the Power, either personally or when linked with others. How many times have we seen people actually study Traveling? Is the reason that some portals open higher than ground level because of altitude, curvature of the planet or just because that's where the channeler wanted it to go? Can anyone move a portal at their location or the one on the other end while it's open? Can you open a portal with the opening facing away from you? (This would make a Traveling firehose very easy by opening the other end of the portal at the depth of the ocean, or even in the planets molten core........ ok I think I've meandered enough :lol )
     
  11. Polegnyn Nemeara

    Polegnyn Nemeara Aes Sedai

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    I'm not sure where this should go so feel free to move to the appropriate thread. It's another thing bugging me since finishing my relisten. This time, though, it's about the True Power.

    The full entry can be read in the Companion but let's recap:

    True Source created by the Creator.
    Female half (saidar) for women.
    Male half (saidin) for men but was tainted by the Dark One at one point.

    True Power is controlled by the Dark One.

    Questions:

    • Did the Dark One create this entirely separate source of power, or is this just another name for the tainted portion of the True Source?
    • Rand has Moridin's saa and other physical characteristics now. Will his continued use of the True Power cause him to develop the same "caverns of flame" that Ishmael had at the beginning of the series?
    • Because all of these events are cyclical, that would mean the DO would break free again at some point. Does Rand essentially become the new Nae'blis now that the he has sole access to the True Power?
    • I assume the DO still has access to the True Power even though he has been sealed away again, or is Rand the sole and final wielder of the True Power?
    • I'm trying to believe Rand's innocent nature would prevent that, but he's already copying Graendal as far as his lusty desires for Min, Elayne, and Ahviendha. How long before he starts using the True Power for other whims?
    • I think what I'm getting at is what is preventing Rand from turning into the same Forsaken he and others hunted and eventually destroyed?
     
  12. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    The True Power is the essence or created by the Dark One. It is a separate source of Power; not a tainted version of the Creator's creation.

    Rand cannot channel after the last battle. He specifically tried to light his pipe with Saidin and the True Power; but could not access the source. In sealing the Dark One's prison, he was able to access the essence of Saidin and Saidar, and glove them in the True Power to prevent the Dark One from interfering. That allowed him to develop a special ability to "will" things into existence. Or so say some people anyway.

    Rand has Moridin's physical attributes only. No channeling :) He does not have access to any form of Power. ... In a way, he is the Creator's power incarnate.

    The Dark One and the True Power still exist; but outside the Pattern. They cannot affect creation till the Bore is re-opened at the End of the next Age of Legends.

    Rand's lust for the 3 ladies is probably reciprocal and consensual. And it is very much unlike what Graendal was doing to her pets :)

    The short of it is that Rand cannot access any form of power; he is more powerful than that; but we don't know how powerful. There is no worry about the True Power corrupting him.

    That's my understanding of the books, anyway :)
     
  13. Polegnyn Nemeara

    Polegnyn Nemeara Aes Sedai

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    Gotcha. Thanks for the confirmation :)

    and

    It's still a form of magical power even thought it's not specifically Channeling. More of an instantaneous mental magical system instead of using weaves to affect things that already exist.

    Good point. But the fact that he can't seem to decide between the three just floors me for some reason. It's like, "Hey, I like these three candy bars. Instead of being mature and picking the one that best suits me, I'm just going to have all three even though I'm more than likely going to puke later." :p

    I get what you're saying about Graendal using Compulsion on her pets. The girls do reciprocate which causes me to :tugeven more. I still wish I understood RJ/Sanderson's thinking behind the decision of writing Rand this way aside from "because I can" or "just to be different than every other story that Nem has ever read." Maybe Rand will learn his lesson once he has all three of them nagging him at once :p ;) Oh wait, he could just glue their lips together or change anything to make them all happy at once. See what I mean? There's just no limit or consequence to what he could do. And how could that not be the least bit tempting than using Saidar or Saidin? He would have to constantly reside in the Void.

    :chocolove( I couldn't resist not using at least one chocolate emote :giggle )
     
  14. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    :) There is much for braid-pulling in WoT for sure :) . RJ wrote Rand's love relationships based on his personal experience. Prior to his marriage, he was involved in a relationship with 2 ladies who sat in the driver's seat. They both decided on who he gets to partner with at any given time. RJ said that if he could handle that type of relationship with 2 ladies; then Rand can probably handle 3 ladies. And Aviendha does confirm that in the last book where she says that they (ladies) will decide who he gets to be with; and that they won't let him come between them. And I think the general understanding is that there is no "grouping" in the partnerships. Rand is summoned by each lady separately. And I don't think he's in any danger of "overdosing." They ladies will pace him well :lol

    As to the scope of Rand's powers, we have no indication as to their magnitude. I don't know if he could move mountains and raise oceans ... or if it is simply lighting a pipe and a small cook fire. I don't recall anything from the Companion or other stuff to give an indication. The whole thing was written as if Rand will probably have peace for some time; but Cadsuane knows he's alive; and Nynaeve suspects as much. The three ladies will be strings tied to him and could lead others to him. He might serve humanity yet with his powers; or he might live an ordinary life to old age and simply pass away.
     
  15. Polegnyn Nemeara

    Polegnyn Nemeara Aes Sedai

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    Now that is a good explanation. Thank you :)

    More good points **sigh for not having post-Tarmon Gai'don storylines**

    I also have to admit I was kind of shocked that Rand's soul didn't die in the end. It seems like we're all conditioned to expect literary heroes to give the ultimate sacrifice. RJ/Sanderson pretty much turned that on its head.
     
  16. Al'Amar El'Haldir

    Al'Amar El'Haldir Citizen

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    Agreed on craving more WoT stories. They don't have to be fleshed out; or very dramatic. Something simple that gives indications how things panned out. I think short stories would be wonderful.

    As to the ultimate sacrifice, it would have been epic for Rand to truly die; but RJ wrote the ending back with book 1 or even before. If memory serves, he was quoted saying that the ending is already written decades before the actual publication. Rand was destined to survive from the start. The same for Lan; his whole arc was a breath away from dying; only to survive at the end of it to reclaim Malkier.


    And on a side note, WoT's souls do not die. They are reborn in different bodies as the Wheel turns. And that is why it is a bit hard for me to understand how Rand can lose the ability to channel. Lanfear says that channeling is connected to the soul. But maybe what Rand has become is ultra-soul (shrug; I'm at loss for words on how to describe it) and doesn't affect the future rebirths where he could channel.
     
  17. Almira ni'Caldazare

    Almira ni'Caldazare Citizen

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