Opinion: Nynaeve's Raising (ToM Spoilers!!!!!!)

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Would you have raised or denied Nynaeve during her testing to become Aes Sedai? Based solely on her performance, if you were one of the Sisters working with the ter'angreal? I honestly don't know if I would have. Probably but ........... I don't know :laugh: :embarassed:
 

Elania al'Manir

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On the one hand, she failed the test. In no way did she remain calm and composed, which is a major component. On the other hand, the Amyrlin had already raised her Aes Sedai, so the test was more of a formality. I don't think they really had any choice!
 
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On the one hand, she failed the test. In no way did she remain calm and composed, which is a major component. On the other hand, the Amyrlin had already raised her Aes Sedai, so the test was more of a formality. I don't think they really had any choice!

True, very true. I try to think of it as if she hadn't been already raised. But that just complicates it more!
 

Elania al'Manir

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Oh. Well if she hadn't already been raised, they probably would have failed her. It would suck to lose the great potential she possessed, but she failed the test. Although, she probably wouldn't be taking the test before she was ready if the circumstances hadn't forced her into it in the first place...
 
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It's such a messy situation. I am glad she passed, I think she raised a lot of good points about "calmness for calmness' sake", which always seemed a bit odd to me. I love her headstrong approach to the situation. I was always curious if she had been not pre-raised, and they cast her out, if she would become Super-Wilder or something and totally rocked the world. That would have been interesting.
 

Aduiavas Ida

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The thing is, she not only failed the test, she broke it :look: She shouldn't have been able to channel before reaching the mark, and she shouldn't have been able to ignore the commands she was given so easily. As Egwene pointed out, she was in many ways to experienced for the test, especially through her work in the dream world :look:
 

Elania al'Manir

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Ooh yeah, I totally forgot about that. It's been a while since I've actually read it. :look:
 

Alora Sionn

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I would have passed her only because she broke the test. At that point you can pretty much see that the whole system of raising going forward will need a complete overhaul because what "has always been done" wouldn't cut it anymore. A new test would have to be devised and maybe a whole new system in the Tower (which was already happening at the Novice level since you used to have to be a certain age but they had grandma Novices coming in), so I would probably tightlip at Nynaeve, look at the rulebook for a long moment, and toss it behind me :cheeseeni: :laugh:
 
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I wonder if they raised any more Accepted with the ter'angreal? Or did she break it forever? That would REALLY throw a wrench in the works for the Tower :embarassed:
 

Alora Sionn

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I think she may have broken it forever :( I doubt anyone alive would know how to fix it, let alone have the materials to do so. But you know what would be cool, if they used the ter'angreal in Rhuidean that the clan chiefs and wise ones used as the new Test for Aes Sedai :eek
 

Elania al'Manir

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Well, they both go through the crystal columns which show you your past ancestors. Also, spoiler from one of the last few books regarding Aviendha's testing:
Or maybe future now instead.

There's also the rings that only wannabe apprentices go through which show you possible futures. I think that one might be more useful as a testing. However, I'm not really sure how one would fail after entering. With the three arches, you can stop in between each one. I'm not sure you can do that with the rings... Plus, even though some groundwork has been laid out for cooperation between the Wise Ones and the Tower, I'm not sure how willing the Aiel would be to let Aes Sedai enter Rhuidean. Even though it's less sacred now.
 

Aduiavas Ida

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I don't think Nynaeve broke it as in It-doesn't-work-anymore broke, but she was able to do things in there that shouldn't be possible. I don't think that means that the next person would be able to do the same, what Nynaeve mostly did was to break free of the "remember what must be remembered" weave she is placed under before starting :look:
 

Kerna Shedrian

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I think she is so strong (and strong willed) that the Compulsion (and it is a form of Compulsion) is something she actively fights against.
 
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I think she may have broken it forever :( I doubt anyone alive would know how to fix it, let alone have the materials to do so. But you know what would be cool, if they used the ter'angreal in Rhuidean that the clan chiefs and wise ones used as the new Test for Aes Sedai :eek

That would totally make sense! Assuming Egwene's plan to exchange women with the Aiel works out. Which I assume it will (That's a lot of assumptions :x )

I think Nynaeve definitely changed the way Aes Sedai work forever. Especially regarding the whole calmness thing. I think she is basically a revolutionary :) And maybe they'll stop using Compulsion on their women. That'd be cool, I think.
 

Tobias Carawin

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First I will address her "breaking" the test.

Entering that particular ter'angreal is similar to being in tel'aran'rhiod. If you remember, Egwene's dream ring caused a disturbance with the 3 ring ter'angreal because their functions were similar. I forget where... but there is another place in the series that makes a connection between the 3 ring ter'angreal and tel'aran'rhiod. I believe Nynaeve's time training in tel'aran'rhiod is what allows her to go beyond the "rules" set for the 3 ring ter'angreal. I don't think she broke the ter'angreal forever.


Would I raise Nynaeve to Aes Sedai...

Keep in mind that I must use only information that the Tower in Exile's hall had on Nynaeve. So all my bias about Nynaeve's achievements and other stuff not known to the hall must not be included.

On one hand I have an accepted that is more powerful than any living Aes Sedai. She makes amazing discoveries including new healing weaves that fundamentally change what we knew of healing. She learns how to cure stilling! She is more knowledgeable in tel'aran'rhiod than any but Egwene and Elayne, and is willing to teach others. She and Elayne returned a Seal on the Dark Ones prison. (This list could go on for a while...)

On the other hand we have a young woman that can not control her temper. She has a will that would make me question if she would pursue the goals of the tower, or her own. Her great ability in channeling means she needs a greater amount of discipline and guidance (With great power comes great responsibility). Her testing was almost fatal and no one knows why or how to prevent anything like that again.

I would probably not raise Nynaeve to Aes Sedai. Her temper and will cloud her judgment. I can overlook the lack of her calmness... but not her temper. Yes she has done amazing things... but that does not exactly qualify her to be Aes Sedai. Yes the Tower is broken at this point... but that doesn't mean we need to sacrifice training for greater numbers. but since she has already been raised by the Amyrlin, I would accept her decree and raise Nynaeve.
 

Calen Velervron

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Maybe this is a future Grey in me talking.. but I would have voted to raise her not only for strength for the tower and that she broke the test- but also because she was Lan's wife and the future Queen of Malkier who they needed in the last battle. To reject her was to lose an ally if not gain an enemy.
 

Devonna Harren

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I would have voted to raise her not only for strength for the tower and that she broke the test- but also because she was Lan's wife and the future Queen of Malkier who they needed in the last battle. To reject her was to lose an ally if not gain an enemy.

That certainly is a good point. However, for all intents and purposes to most of the world, Malkier is dead. Nynaeve's willing it doesn't bring it back for everyone on it's own.

As for me, I think I would react the way several of them did. Initially reject her, but they were cruel and she can be in control without being cold. Aes Sedai calm mostly means being cold in situations that would evoke emotion, and Nynaeve, even in her anger, was in control and moving forward, while also combatting the terrible things she saw. She might not fit the face of the current Tower, but she fits the narrative of the purpose of the Tower.
 

Ryu Shadowborn

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One thing about Nynaeve's test is that they pushed her specifically to try and make her break the rules of the test. Some of the Other sisters themselves that did the test specifically mentioned that she had been treated unfairly, Egwene specifically admits to crafting a scene that was specifically targeted at Nyneave's personal life, how many Accepted face testing like that, mind you Egwene also crafted the scene with Lan a scene that included Dark Hounds who can -only- be killed with Balefire? How is that a remotely fair test?
 

Fern Al'Thorn

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Her passion is what makes her unique among the Aes Sedai, that is what drove her to find the new healing. I also think she understands that there is a place to be calm and then there is not. I would have raised her, because she showed that even under some of the worst conditions, she still chose to save those she could. IT is something that I think the tower at the time had forgone. the aspect that those outside the use of the power have a lot less time to decide how to do things. they do not have the luxury of seeing the long threads or the pattern as clearly as you can when you have decades of life over them.
 
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