2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

It's in chapter 46 that Renda tells about her older sister. Wouldn't be suprised if it's Liandrin.

 

[Leira Galene]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

Ugh, I am so behind again. I just haven't been in the mood for Perrin and Faile.

 

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

Lucky it's not only Faile and Perrin now

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

It's in chapter 46 that Renda tells about her older sister. Wouldn't be suprised if it's Liandrin.

Who's Renda?

 

[Imzadi Hopewind]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

The woman that own the inn where the girls are :shifty

Edit: Her name is Rendra....

And I'm thinking about the discuss earlier:

I've been looking in my book and can't seem to find her mentioning a sister. (of course I could just be missing it) Do you happen to remember when she mentions that?

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

Ooooh, ok. Haven't made it that far yet.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

^ Yyyup, Ryu pretty much summed it up.

There are times when I like Faile. Like in the Tinkers' camp, I actually liked her. But then there are times like.... when she bullies Loial into taking her into the Ways.

Yeah as I probably said before, I will go on a rather large rant on "Strong Females" come Cadsuane, because she is among the singular most infuriating, hypocritical characters in all of fiction to me.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

Faile actually isn't REALLY bothering me much yet. After the dumb thing with the Ways, I'm kinda liking her interactions with Perrin. So far. I just know it's going to get soooo bad eventually.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

TSR: 44

Perrin wakes up in the Winespring, we learn that Gaul and Loial went off to close the gate.

“I only trust my axe, my bow and you” in-flaming-bloody-deed, I am sad we don't get any chapters from Loial's POV about the trip to the gate, at least the universe immediately smacks him around for his stupidity and throws him down the stairs.

A lone Trolloc showed up outside the Village, then runs off after harming two of the Loggers, which as a Warcraft player immediately makes me think of the Orcish Peons who were the Loggers for the Horde in the first three games, because Orcish Peons are the best group of lazy twits ever!

Bain and Chiad come running out of the forest and tell of Trollocs coming, and the defenses are gathered, with Tam and Abell leading them, Tam I fully understand as he was one of the Elite Gaurd of Illian, but Abell is a bit of a surprise, we never hear of him doing anything outside of being good with horses.

Perrin watches, and ends up with his own Companions! Which the kids apparently learned from Tam telling stories, yes far fetched stories of the Companions of Illian which totally do not exist at all. C'mon Perrin you know better than to think Tam tells stories that aren't true.

The attack is fairly weak, and the Aes Sedai empower boulders thrown with the catapults to explode, I wonder how things like that would work for the Oaths, the Aes Sedai are only making the stones go boom, what would happen if say they empower a stone, then the catapult operators turn the catapult around and fling it into the middle of the green? Also are Verin and Alanna linked during this?

There are many ways I think there could be loopholes in that oath, like would an Aes Sedai be prevented from..say digging a ditch that just happens to be in the way of a Calvary charge, she is not harming anyone, it is the Calvary's choice of if they stop before they get to this Ditch that an Aes Sedai just happened to be in the way by sheer coincidence.

TSR: 45

Before anything else, does anyone find it out of character for basically every sane reasonable person around for the Emond's Fielders to not have someone responsible in charge of the southern defenses? We have Coplans, Congers, and Cenn Buie all gathered in the south and nobody to make sure they don't do something problematic?

Really people? Tam at least should have better sense than that, and certainly between Tam, Bran, Abell, and the Luhans somebody should have thought having this group together with no baby sitter is a terrible idea, and speaking of terrible ideas, The Traveling people got attacked by Shadowspawn, and basically wiped out, just like Perrin said they would because walking straight into Trolloc infested wilds is almost suicidally stupid for anyone but Aiel and Aes Sedai.

Then we have the beginning of another of the terrible things Perrin gets dragged through, and this one is one of the few plots in the series that I think could be completely cut from a Movie or TV series since Aram's plot goes absolutely no where, and sadly this is where Perrin's sub-plot with the Tinkers end.

Then the white cloaks show up, and end up staying in the Town, under promise they will aid in the defense against the shadow spawn.

TSR: 46

Hello Moghedien, also compulsion is creepy, Jordan managed to actually make the spell as creepy as possible where some other writers fail when mind control spells exist, I wonder if the weaves that Nynaeve and Elyane were under ever truly ended, or if they are still there at the end of the series

TSR: 47

The tower splits officially, Elaida is raised as the Amyrlin, and Suian is disposed, of note here is that Siuan's warder is dead, with a knife wound, which seems rather unnecessary, Siuan is stilled and Min helps her escape with the assistance of Laras.

TSR: 48

Not much to speak of here, travels through the waste continue, Rand interacts with Aviendha, The Peddler, and argues with Moraine.

TSR: 49

Rand's party arrives at Cold Rock's hold, and we see Couladin look at Rand with amusement when Rand, Rhuarc, Amys and Avhienda go to the hold.

Thinking about it, Couladin is something of a wasted character. Rand only managed to convert a very few handful of enemies to allies in his adventure, The Tairens who were rebelling against him are the only ones I can really think of, I think it would have been a great sub plot to have Rand take Couladin as Gai-shan and eventually have Couladin come to respect him in a way, and earn the respect of the Wise Ones while in Rand's service, and end up becoming a Clan Chief of the Shaido late into the series, after Perrin smashes them and bring them into the fold of the rest of the Aiel, it would have been a good payoff of Rand learning the Aiel ways and how to fight with a spear, Couladin challenges him to a 1 on 1 duel outside of Cairhaihen, with Rand promising not to use the power.

TSR: 50

Rand - Rand explores more of Cold Rocks hold, learning more of the Aiel and seing how they live, he speaks with the Maidens of the Spear, and participates in a ceremony with them, drinking tea to remember honor, and asks them about gifts to give Aviendha in thanks for her teachings, and they misunderstand his intentions and think he is courting her.

After that Rand speaks with Amys and Melaine, and the two have a tense moment where Rand accuses her of spying on him, and Amys goes into things of Prophecy and him being Car'a'carn in a rather harsh tone. Neither really look good here, Amys could have very easily said that Aviendha was meant to teach him Aiel ways so he did not offend anyone on purpose, Melaine gets quite upset through this all and almost threatens to lay something at Rand's feet. Probably a bride wreath.

Rand goes to sleep, and dreams..leaving him open for Lanfear to sneak in and toy with him, Asmodean appears and argues with the Forsaken, and the pair go off, Rand awakens and senses someone in his room, with the power he holds the person in air and it turns out to be Aviendha, who gets wrapped in air for her troubles, Rand senses Shadowspawn and runs out of his room to find a Dragkar in Cold Rocks Hold, the battle starts as Rand sounds the alarm, Rhuarc offers Rand a shoufa, but Rand declines, deciding to be bait for the Shadowspawn.

Mat – The battle ends and Mat clearly sees that the trollocs were not in enough numbers to break the defenses, and were only there to distract the defenders from the Flying targets, we learn the Shaido ran off in the night, moving to Alcair Dal, and Rand decides that he must follow even if it will harm the Honor of other Clans.

Of course it makes 100% sense for him to need to go to Alcair Dal, Shadowspawn have attacked him twice in the Wastes, that should be enough reason even without the Shaido being sneaks to justify it, He is the Chief of Cheifs, Shadowspawn invading so far into the wastes is something that needs to be discussed with the other Clans as soon as possible.

TSR: 51

I love Egeanin, at least the early book version of her. She seems to act out of character once she becomes one of the blood, almost a complete 180 in terms of disposition. She even sets a Bethamin free from the collar, later on she acts quite differently, consider how the Egeanin here would treat Mat who worked together with her to escape Ebou Dar.

Bayle, Thom and Julin all show up, Bayle blowing Egeanin's cover and getting into a fight. Elayne and Nynaeve discover that Egeanin is a Seanchan. Which goes over about as well as one would think it would, Nyneave seems about half ready to balefire her.

Then the other two men show up, and all three together prove that The Black Ajah are in the Panarch's palace, and that Amathera may be a dark friend as well.

TSR: 52

Nynaeve goes to the world of dreams to meet Egwene and the two tell recent events, then Nynaeve asks the wise ones of a way to find out what she needs to know, and the two berate her a little before relenting. Bair basically wipes her hands clean of it, while Amys tells Nynaeve of a way to find something based purely on need, she finds the Panarch being tortured and singing bawdy tavern songs, which was a rumor that Julin heard about her. Nyneave's need takes her to the Museum where she finds a woman in black staring at a particular exhibit.

Bridgette shows up and warns Nyneave about the forsaken, and also speaks to Gaidal who chastises Bridgette for breaking the precepts, and Nyneave returns to the Museum and finds the item that the Black Ajah were seeking, a Black set of bracelets with a collar, and she doesn't take the half step of thought from “Metal Collar and Bracelet, colored black instead of white/silver” to “ITS AN AD'AM”.

I swear I pegged that the first time through the series, and these intelligent smart people and Nyneave, Elyane are both smart, smart enough to realize this! Egwene should have too.


TSR: 53

Perrin sits in the Winespring, going over reports as the Women's Circle works with supplies. Dannil comes in with a message, The White Cloaks found a man hurt while on patrol. The man is too far gone but he gives the message “We are coming”

Perrin goes to get some sleep, but there is commotion along the west edge of the town and Perrin goes there, a Lone Trolloc is carrying something towards the Village. Perrin with his great eyesight sees that it is not a Trolloc it is Loial, carrying Gaul.

Chiad and Bain tend to Gaul, threatening to make him Gai'shan if he does not stop pushing them away, Blood Feud does not apparently last long when you are surrounded by Shadowspawn, and it foreshadows a bit of what happens with the Aiel later on in Aviendha's visions.

He then goes into the wolfdream, and sees several visions of things to come, and starts to explore the two rivers. He finds several Trolloc camps, focused mostly on Emond's Field and is attacked by slayer, he lures Slayer into a trap and manages to land an arrow shot, Slayer fades from the dream and noise awakes Perrin.

Now interestingly Slayer fades from the dream, he does not step from it. I wonder if Slayer is going into the world of dreams proper at this point yet, especially as he seems far more dangerous later in the series when we know he is in the dream physically.

TSR: 54

Elyane – We begin with a flashback to the discussions on who should go into the Palace with The Accepted, Thom, Julin and Bael all think they should go in. In my opinion Thom would have been the obvious choice from the start, he has lived in Palaces and has been among Nobility for decades of his life, of course Egeanin speaks up, proving that at this point in the series she is pretty awesome.

“They are Dark Friends, they need to be brought to justice” The Seanchan Empire can be as dogmatic as the Whitecloaks sometimes, but we get more than a few glimpses of people who are legitimately good and trying to serve a cause they believe in.

Then the fun starts when the Accepted's minions begin a riot, WHOO! *throws stones at white cloaks* Causing a riot is a greatly smart way to cause a distraction as you sneak through, not sure I think it is a 100% good guy move, but..well one of my DnD characters is a Were-Bear Shaman who eats people so I can't chastise them too much for not being 100% good guys.

The Trio Split up, Elyane and Egeanin go to find the Panarc, Nyneave goes to find the item the Blacks want, Elyane finds the Panarc and poor Amathera has to be confused and scared by the Aes Sedai who have been torturing her. I imagine as someone who is educated she knows that Aes Sedai are not the evil witches told of in stories, and likely knows of the 3 oaths so this had to have been shocking to her at least.

I love that Elyane takes no crap from the Panarc here, lifting her onto tip toes by the hair, I do love Kings and Queens that understand when threats are 100% justified and know exactly how to make them in the way that gains you an equal amounts of respect and fear.


Nyneave – She heads to the Exhibition hall, and touches the collar, which causes her to feel pain and woe. Which makes me wonder exactly what the heck these things have been used for in the past. Normal Ad'am don't do that, and they presumably have hundreds of years of use on some of them, Nyneave sees a woman enter the Hall, and pretends to dust until she leaves. However she recognizes the woman and draws on the power and a duel of epic proportions begins.

Moghedien tries to taunt Nyneave, telling her she will give the other woman to Ravihn, Nyneave realizes that she is matching Moghedien in strength with the power, that she is equal to one of the Forsaken and that Moghedien is attempting to distract her, Nyneave feigns tiredness a little and Chucks the Male Ad'am at the Forsaken and manages to shield her from the power.

Then Jeaine Caide shows up with the black wand, and starts to shoot balefire everywhere unfortunately she did not hit Moghedien, oh that would have been hilarious, a Black Sister accidentally balefires one of the forsaken, in the time it takes Nyneave to find a semi safe place both disappear, Moghedien likely used the True Power to cut the weaves, or a Well. Though why she did not use those when she needed a little boost.

TSR: 55

Nyneave meet up with Elayne and Egeanin with Thera, and the group gets the heck out of dodge, through a door Julin had picked the lock of, while Bayle's men form a perimeter, they go back to the Three Plum Court, Amatherea taking the role of a “refugee with no money” which is technically 100% true, she is a refugee from her home, which was taken over by the Black Ajah and the White Cloaks and is possibly on fire, and has no money on her.

That is why, if you have the resources for it you have a Go Bag, just in the event that things hit the fan you have something you don't need to pack or prepare, you just have to grab it and GTFO.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

I think the pain that Nynaeve (and Egwene) feels when they touch the male a'dam is similar to the pain that male channelers feel when they touch the female version At least, that is how I have interpreted it...

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 43-49

TSR: 51

I love Egeanin, at least the early book version of her. She seems to act out of character once she becomes one of the blood, almost a complete 180 in terms of disposition. She even sets a Bethamin free from the collar, later on she acts quite differently, consider how the Egeanin here would treat Mat who worked together with her to escape Ebou Dar.

I had forgotten how different she was! I like her character as it is now, but it also confuses me. Elayne and Nynaeve are hunting Black Ajah and they choose NOW to make new friends? How do they not realize she's Seanchan? And what is going through Eagenin's mind, seriously just trying to get to know them? It just feels awkward to me. Maybe knowing where her character is going is messing me up.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 50-56

Elayne and Nynaeve are hunting Black Ajah and they choose NOW to make new friends?

She did save their bacon, and the two were being polite inviting a person who saved your rump, and Elyane picks up the accent but can't place it, which makes sense Eagenin's purpose here is to blend in and be a spy, she would have done her best to cover up drawl.

And what is going through Eagenin's mind, seriously just trying to get to know them?

She has a Sul'dam collared up in her basement, that goes against everything her culture ever taught her about how the one power works, and she happens to meet a pair of Aes Sedai, at this point she is doing what is her perceived duty and learning more about the power. After all the empire only sees the one power as a weapon, not much research into it has probably been done over there.

Not that things are too too much better this side of the ocean, but that the Seanchan don't know that channeling can be learned shows just how little they really know of it.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 50-56

It seems like a single meeting or maybe two would be enough for both of those purposes, doncha think? Enough to say thanks, and enough to realize Aes Sedai were different than expected. I guess maybe if Eagenin could channel or was a sul'dam herself, it would make sense that she wanted to know more and more about HOW they were different, but continuing to meet with them regularly feels like overkill on both sides.

 

[Maibella ni Rhoiden t'al'Varrak]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 50-56

Maybe, but think about it from a more personal perspective ... Egeanin has been alone for all intents and purposes for quite a while now. And the girls have been pretty isolated as well. The way I see it, those few "necessary" meetings showed them that they could become friends, and they all seem to be lacking in the female friendship department right about now. Sometimes you meet someone and you just know that you could be good friends with that person if you give it half a chance; that's what I feel happened here.

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 50-56

I wonder how things like that would work for the Oaths, the Aes Sedai are only making the stones go boom, what would happen if say they empower a stone, then the catapult operators turn the catapult around and fling it into the middle of the green? Also are Verin and Alanna linked during this?
There are many ways I think there could be loopholes in that oath, like would an Aes Sedai be prevented from..say digging a ditch that just happens to be in the way of a Calvary charge, she is not harming anyone, it is the Calvary's choice of if they stop before they get to this Ditch that an Aes Sedai just happened to be in the way by sheer coincidence.

If they intend it to be a weapon against Shadowspawn, and someone uses it in a way it's not intended, I think they're safe.

As for the loophole...yes, technically. If she can really convince herself that she's not making a ditch as a weapon against humans and that it's their choice to fall into it, yeah. But, looking at a tactical perspective, it wouldn't be a good use of resources; an Aes Sedai would be better used in the fighting where she can attack people because her life, the life of her Warder, or the life of another Aes Sedai is at risk.

I wonder if the weaves that Nynaeve and Elyane were under ever truly ended, or if they are still there at the end of the series

Nynaeve at least breaks hers, in Chapter 52. Moggy told her to forget what happened, and she remembered, so I assume she broke the rest of the bonds as well.

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 50-56

Chapter 45
Ryu pointed out that it was stupid to have the Coplins et al guarding the gate at the road, and them attacking Tinkers proves it. Tinkers! People! THEY MISTOOK PEOPLE FOR TROLLOCS. Bloody idiots who shouldn't be trusted with a bow. The Tinkers come for help, and they're attacked, just as they thought they'd be. That's why they don't trust townspeople.
And Perrin gets hangry.
"The Way of the leaf was a fine belief, like a dream of peace, but like the dream it could not last where there was violence."

Chapter 46
I can't decide if Elayne is full of herself in thinking the men were trying to kidnap her, or if she's right to think that way.
Egeanin's views of Aes Sedai are changing even more rapidly. I think Jordan used this series of scenes -- Egeanin, Nynaeve, and Elayne becoming friends -- as another demonstration of how people from disparate backgrounds can come together, can unite, and can actually like each other. Nynaeve gets mad when she finds out Eg is Seanchan because she likes her.
I thought it funny that under Compulsion, Elayne only answered exactly the question that was asked.

Chapter 47
How did Suian not notice Alric's death? Or sense his surprise and pain?
Elaida thought she should be Amyrlin, but a woman younger than she got it. She never got over that.

Chapter 48
Avi is already starting to consider sharing Rand with Elayne.
Funny: We never meet a "real" gleeman. Just Thom and Asmo/Natael, both of whom are bards disguised as gleeman.
We see a contrast here of Avi and Egwene who have teachers, and Rand, who doesn't.

Chapter 49
What are the shiny red berries on bushes?
Rand keeps brushing aside valid concerns and warnings about Couladin.
Once again, not knowing what he's doing saves Rand and makes him look better.
Do the Wise Ones who channel live as long as Aes Sedai used to? How many husbands do they go through?
In the first sister bond, what does it feel like if the sister dies?
Rand compares the colors of the Aiel home to Tinkers -- has Rand met Tinkers? Or is he just drawing on stereotype?
Did Moiraine see something of Couladin in the rings? Or in her questions to the 'finns?
Does Moiraine know a way to tattoo with the Power? Or, again, did she see something in the rings/'finns to make her suspect that Couladin could have the dragons on his arms?

Chapter 50
Rand is able to feel Shadowspawn.
Mat: How had Perrin pulled free? Because Mat has his own prophecy to fulfill and the Pattern won't allow him leeway.

Chapter 51
Elayne wants to put Thom into retirement. Ridiculous!
Elayne underestimates Thom -- thinks him a foolish bard.

Chapter 52
Nynaeve breaks the Compulsion.
Birgitte (all Heroes?) is attracted to those who fight evil.
When Birgitte was ripped from TAR, does she go back upon death? Or does Moggy's promise come true, and Birgitte is left to weep alone and no longer be tied either to the Horn or to Gaidal Cain?

 

[Megana Vallentin]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 50-56

Chapter 47
How did Suian not notice Alric's death? Or sense his surprise and pain?

I'm wondering this too.

 

[Ryu Shadowborn]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 50-56

You know with all of this, I forgot to mention I do not know if any of you know but there is a band called Blind Guardian, a German Power Metal band, and they do songs for Fantasy Books sometimes (they have an entire Album Dedicated to The Simirilion) they have a pair of Wheel of time Songs.

"Ride into obsession" which is about Rand and Bala'zamon and "Wheel of time"which is more more about Rand

 

[Rhed al'Tere]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 50-56

I'm totally not into metal, but I will have listen to these!

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Re: 2015 Re-Readalong: The Shadow Rising Chapters 50-56

Birgitte is still tied to the Horn. She is killed in the last book, and comes back like 5 minutes later as a Hero again And then she is reborn so she will just be a few years younger than Gaidal. (Btw, having a Hero reborn so close to the Last Battle is stupid. Waste of a good hero :rolleyes)