Casting

Catt Heckathorne

Previously known as Cattrin al'Modrah
Aes Sedai
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
15,286
Age
37
Pronouns
  1. None - Use Name
And another post in the JordanCon Facebook page from our own Maria Simmons regarding the casting choices:

Okay, I was just pointed at a certain article saying that everyone in The Wheel of Time comics was white, so that must be what Robert Jordan meant for Emond’s Fielders to look like. The article says that the comics were released in 2005, two years before RJ’s death. That’s NOT the case. Some of the comics of New Spring did come out before his death, and he did work on those – some of his emails about them are included in New Spring: The Graphic Novel. However, in New Spring no one goes anywhere close to the Two Rivers.

There was a dry period for the comics – New Spring was not finished, but no new issues were produced – and in that period RJ died. It was not until 2008 that Bandersnatch resumed work with the Dabel brothers to finish them. RJ was dead, so I - who had worked with RJ and the Dabels on the earlier issues - worked with the Dabels, approving or asking for any changes desired.

Shortly after that, we embarked on the comic version of “The Eye of the World.” RJ was still dead, so again oversight of production was given to me. Issue 00 of the comic has a cover date of April 09.So it is totally unfair, specious, and wrong to say that the comics prove that all Emond’s Fielders were white. In MY mind’s eye, at that time they were, which is totally MY failing, and not Robert Jordan’s. Careful reading of the books shows that they are not what my privilege led me to assume.

And yes, RJ did have a list of actors that he said the characters resembled, and those actors were largely white, but that list was made long before, and referred more to build and face structure, not necessarily eye color or skin tone. Val Kilmer has blue eyes, after all, and Perrin’s are canonically brown until certain events occur.

I think that the cast chosen for the TV series is absolutely wonderful, and every time I look at each of them, I’m a little more in love. Harriet thinks that they are grand as well and particularly likes Marcus’ eyebrows.

Really, people, I feel quite safe in saying that Robert Jordan would be freaking appalled at all this racism.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/5034437636?view=permalink&id=10156826384827637
 

Leira Galene

Aes Sedai
Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
13,457
Location
Kiruna, Sweden
Pronouns
  1. They - Them
  2. She - Her
I actually don't mind Nyaneve and Ewgene the more I look at various images of them. Rand just doesn't do it for me, no idea why, but I will let that one go. I just feel like Perrin is more of a rugged outdoors type, and his casting just doesn't do it for me. Though to be fair, no one would probably do it for me. I have role played Perrin for 16-17 years in various video games, mmorpg's (in Final Fantasy XI, etc), and my first read of the series at age 14 - Perrin's scenes were always my favorite. So it's possible I just have unrealistic standards for him, maybe this guy will pleasantly surprise me. I don't think there is anything wrong with having my own opinion of it, to me Perrin is more than just his personality traits (Stoic, Wolfbrother, it's something I can't describe with words but I know it when I see it), but this is my own personal context of having spent so much time with the idea of Perrin over the years than the other characters. Like I said though he might pleasantly surprise me, I hope he does. :)

Just wanted to post this due to my first comment a couple days ago being quite negative in regards to the casting, it was just a kneejerk reaction was all, but actually this casting is growing on me, except for Rand and Perrin... but I will try to keep an open mind and give the first episode a shot.
Fair enough, I can understand this.
 
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
11,703
Location
The Netherlands
Pronouns
  1. He - Him
Discord
Lightheart#7487

Ilverin Matriam

Aes Sedai
Director of Research and Records
Historian
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
13,844
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
Daniel Greene did a video on it too :)
(Also includes clips in the descriptions, there may be overlaps with your link Tazren)

I just watched Daniel Greene's video and he is soooo reasonable, but then again, he is a huge fan.

..... and then.... I decided to read the comment section :x why oh why did I do this to myself :facepalm
 

Seryse ni Cousland

Aes Sedai
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
3,902
Age
27
Location
Georgia, USA
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
I literally squealed like a little girl when I saw Rosamund Pike is Moiraine. I love her from other films and she totally fit my mental image.

I cried a little (not ashamed, this has been a huge part of my life since I was like 12) when I saw Nynaeve and Egwene. My first read through they we're definitely white, but after spending time on the Tumblr fandom I saw that my initial concepts for them weren't what RJ was hinting at. I'm re-reading the Eye of the World now with their faces and it's been a really powerful experience seeing that these women who contributed so much to who I am have faces.

I'm less convinced on the boys, Rand especially. Perrin is spot on, especially with the audiobook covers, but I definitely imaged Mat a little thinner through the face. I appreciate that Rand was cast as someone who I (believe) is from Scandinavia, especially given the Aiel analogy to Vikings, but I definitely saw... I don't know, pointier features? :laugh:

But I'm enthusiastic nonetheless. There will be viewing parties and tears when it releases.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
4,315
Age
35
Location
Sweden
Brandson Sanderson said this about the casting: "I suspect most of us could have named the character from the headshots for each of them."

For me at least, I really agree and think it best summarises the way I feel about the casting.
 

Elessa Rohirrim

Aes Sedai
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
115
I do not get all the fuss at all, every two rivers description refers to them having dark hair and eyes - in contrast to rand's light colouring. That's likely to go along side darker skin colour, not very dark - again those are commented on quite specifically (Tuon for one). And tbh I could care less about the look - as long as they mesh well together and the dynamics are right it will work.
Nobody was ever going to be happy with every character.
I do like that there seems to be a Two Rivers "look" I think that's a great start
 
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
11,703
Location
The Netherlands
Pronouns
  1. He - Him
Discord
Lightheart#7487

Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

Anime Sensei
Aes Sedai
Mayor
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
35,439
Age
37
Location
Lost in the zemai
Pronouns
  1. She - Her

Shaerlyn Storna

Aes Sedai
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
7,008
Josha is Netherlandish, I think. (Tongue in cheek. He’s Dutch.)

Watch this for to learn about the Netherlands :)

Ok that one I got from a first generation Nederlander and he vouches for its accuracy.

Stephen, how’s this one?
 
Last edited:

Aduiavas Ida

Aes Sedai
Head of the White Ajah
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
20,137
Age
34
Location
Drøbak, Norway
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
In Norway, we just use the term "The North" for Norway, Iceland Sweden, Finland and Denmark.

Though the North can also simply refer to the top half of Norway :look:
 
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
38
Age
32
Location
Spain
But... what am i reading?

No racism, definitely Maria's comment is fully out of context and unfair. Most readers imagined that the Two Rivers characters were white, its not racism. There would have been criticism for Tuon white... in this case too.

Are we wrong? we will never know, unfortunately, RJ is dead. However, if Harriet is happy with the choice, i think that, we will all be happy too.

Do not talk about racism. They are only different opinions. Can speak on behalf of all, saying that If we like the Wheel of Time, among other reasons, it is because has a wealth of race.

I'm sorry if my English is not clear/good enough. I try to express myself the best popsible. I hope you understand my English and not offend anyone.

One big hug for all of you :grouphug
 
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Messages
2,448
Location
Louisville, KY
Overall, I don't feel like this is really anything but a tempest in a teapot. I think worries about a vast wave of racism among fandom are somewhat exaggerated by the nature of social media and other online environments. I've come to find over the years that virtually 95% of things that become online topics of discussion for a few days are completely isolated from the general population who never hear of that topic or have any care about it if they do.

That said, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I think it's extremely likely that in Jordan's mind, as he was writing, if he ever pictured the Two Rivers leads he pictured them passingly as typical caucasian examples of the European fantasy genre. I think if he'd been specifically asked about skin color, he'd most likely have said he didn't care and readers can picture whatever they liked.

In the actual text, skin color is referenced sparsely enough that I agree it's pretty open to picture the leads however one likes. I do think picturing them with white skin is, likewise, a perfectly valid picture that comports with the text.

Speaking to my personal reading experience, I grew up in a rural area of eastern Kentucky that is mostly hillbillies, so the references to dark coloration simply registered in my mind as dark hair, eyes, and general complexion. When I read the section with Elaida comparing Rand's very pale skin to the darker Two Rivers folk, this made complete sense to me as I incorporated this into my own rural cultures distinctions between the tanned, darker skin of the "redneck" country folk, and the rarer red-headed extra-pale coloration type.

So yes, I think all of that is a perfectly valid, and certainly non-racist, mental picture of the characters.

I do think the Elaida section bears the best grounds for claiming the characters are specifically *intended* to be dark like the actors cast, and I think the passage comparing Egwene's skin to the whiteness of a flower is the best grounds for claiming the characters are specifically *intended* to be caucasian-white, but I think both are scant enough (and such singular moments in the vast text of the series) that it's unavoidably clear to me that Jordan placed no emphasis on the skin color of the leads (excepting Rand) and frankly didn't consider it important to his tale.

For my own part, it was a surprise to me to see the actors cast in a way I wasn't expecting, but as it's not an important theme of the story I have no problem with it, and I'm quite confident the performances will quickly become the focus of fandom once the series starts running.
 
Last edited:

Jocasta Braithe

Aes Sedai
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
8,189
Location
Maine
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
To be fair, I didn't think it was racist to have mental images of the characters as white folks. I didn't happen to have that image myself, but I don't think it's inherently racist to imagine them that way. I DID think it was racist to flip out that the series would be RUINED FOREVER if the Two River's folks weren't cast as universally white actors.

Agree that it's a tempest in a teapot though! I'm guessing it will blow over as the show gets closer to launch.
 

Leira Galene

Aes Sedai
Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
13,457
Location
Kiruna, Sweden
Pronouns
  1. They - Them
  2. She - Her
To be fair, I didn't think it was racist to have mental images of the characters as white folks. I didn't happen to have that image myself, but I don't think it's inherently racist to imagine them that way. I DID think it was racist to flip out that the series would be RUINED FOREVER if the Two River's folks weren't cast as universally white actors.
^This.
 

Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

Anime Sensei
Aes Sedai
Mayor
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
35,439
Age
37
Location
Lost in the zemai
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
To be fair, I didn't think it was racist to have mental images of the characters as white folks. I didn't happen to have that image myself, but I don't think it's inherently racist to imagine them that way. I DID think it was racist to flip out that the series would be RUINED FOREVER if the Two River's folks weren't cast as universally white actors.

+1
 

Shaerlyn Storna

Aes Sedai
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
7,008
That, plus some responses showed that the person posting held some deeply problematic viewpoints about the subject in the first place.

In any case, the majority of the fandom seems to be in one of two boats: cautiously optimistic or 11 out of 10 excited. Folks who aren’t? Shrug. There was never gonna be a way to make everyone happy.

I do think the Elaida section bears the best grounds for claiming the characters are specifically *intended* to be dark like the actors cast, and I think the passage comparing Egwene's skin to the whiteness of a flower is the best grounds for claiming the characters are specifically *intended* to be caucasian-white, but I think both are scant enough (and such singular moments in the vast text of the series) that it's unavoidably clear to me that Jordan placed no emphasis on the skin color of the leads (excepting Rand) and frankly didn't consider it important to his tale.

This.
 
Last edited:

Autumn Sapphira

Sparkle Spren
Aes Sedai
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
7,285
Location
USA, Arizona
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
To be fair, I didn't think it was racist to have mental images of the characters as white folks. I didn't happen to have that image myself, but I don't think it's inherently racist to imagine them that way. I DID think it was racist to flip out that the series would be RUINED FOREVER if the Two River's folks weren't cast as universally white actors.

Agree that it's a tempest in a teapot though! I'm guessing it will blow over as the show gets closer to launch.
This.
 
Top